SHOUTcast DNAS 2 (Build 29) 07/31/2011 - Page 3

DrO · 25th July 2012, 01:46

a lot of the people who have complained generally just want to click and go and don't want to have to do anything (which i can see that appealing but even the v1 DNAS wasn't like that). and really to get better adoption of the DNAS (irrespective of the version), things need to be somewhat easier to get going, or at least be more intuitive on what to run or what to enter, etc.

as for the documentation, the wording of parts is not as clear as it could be or could be better described such as with images, etc as there is a lot of text and navigation maybe isn't as nice as it could or should be (as the plain text file version is likely to be dropped as the main type provided and will shift over to a html like version so it's easier to navigate between aspects).

-daz

nwgator · 25th July 2012, 01:50

What gets me is the amount of stream providers who don't even support Shoutcast 2 yet. It's been out for quite a while now, yet they refuse to move forward.

I manage my own setup, but there are a lot of people who don't.

DrO · 25th July 2012, 02:11

there's some out there but there's a number of issues which i think are causing them as well as normal stations to hold off. so in no particular order:

stability issues (i.e. all of the known issues
not being quite the same compared to the v1 DNAS (no 7.html for example even though there's the /stats xml equivalent and there will be a DNAS wide /statistics coming as well as JSON/JSON-P response support on all access methods so it should be easier to pull information from the DNAS for reporting, etc)
lack of v2 compatible DNAS management software which is related to the above point (though that is changing like Centova is doing a v3 public beta and radiotoolbox actually works with a v2 DNAS now)
lack of resources & / or interest to work on things when the v1 does what they want i.e. don't have to do anything and can still make money off people
a lack of understanding that it can be used in place of a v1 DNAS (though the first point does make that not as smooth as it could be but that is something which has been worked on)
general apathy to updating since there have been some troublesome issues but most of them were in the beta phase or from a lack of people trying out the beta and then things have slipped through the net to end up in the non-beta release (hence the massive changelog the next build will have from fixing a lot of things that should have been better or worked correctly but time constraints hindered that)

it's a horrible balancing act since in some areas the current v2 DNAS build is better than the v1 DNAS but then stability issues kill it being applicable for a lot of people (though the v1 DNAS would have gone through the same teething issues in its early days).

i just hope that when v2.2 comes out (as v2.1 is designated as internal / test builds) that it does stand the v2 DNAS in a better light than has been the case with the prior builds. though i fear that the delay in a new build which has stemmed from adding in a number of new and useful things like JSON/JSON-P support, the means for a stream to have a backupurl to keep it going if the primary source fails and all of the bug fixes and refinements, the bad experiences some had during the betas and even with the current build has probably put them off for good

-daz

nwgator · 25th July 2012, 02:21

Valid points. I love trying new things. I think already that v2 is much better than v1.

I recall reading somewhere that album art support for v2 was removed, even though it was originally planned. (or did I misread somewhere?)
Any plans to bring that back?

DrO · 25th July 2012, 09:52

there still is in-stream albumart support - you might be referring to it being dropped from sc_trans but that was only due to changes in the protocol specification to make things saner (as sending the artwork as base64 encoded inside the normal metadata updates wasn't ideal) and sc_trans hasn't been updated to the newer method yet.

the key issue is a) the implementation has been somewhat buggy (both in the Source DSP and DNAS as they are ones which do support it) and b) there are no clients which support it to my knowledge (i've got an in-progress Winamp update that works but isn't stable and doesn't do what is expected when used with some skins).

-daz

nwgator · 25th July 2012, 23:05

Not sure why I never asked earlier, but any plans to implement IPv6 for the DNAS/transcoder?

DrO · 26th July 2012, 09:37

it probably should happen at some stage and some of the code is in place to do it but there's no formal plans on my schedule currently.

-daz

DrO · 24th August 2012, 10:09

possibly helpful DNAS setup made easier thought of the day....

i'm considering adding in the means for the DNAS to automatically generate an authhash for a stream when a source is connected for it and the stream is set to be public and there is no authhash present.

assuming the source provides enough information to be able to generate an authhash correctly, then this i think may resolve most of the "authhash sucks" complaints and with other pending changes / fixes, it's simple enough to change the authhash details without dropping.

so does this seem like a yes / no / i don't care i'm just going to stick with v1 cos you suck, etc ?

and if i do go ahead with it, there would be a configuration option to disable the feature as i can see in specific hosted setups this causing issues with pre-generated configurations.

-daz

diversity · 24th August 2012, 15:51

Hi daz,

I think that automatically generating authhashes would improve the dnas admin experience and silence some of the v1 haters. I would say go for it, but I'm sure you have lots on your plate already. Great work on v2 so far - it took me a while to get a stable setup but all the new features make it worthwhile.

Cheers,
div

nwgator · 27th August 2012, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrO

possibly helpful DNAS setup made easier thought of the day....

i'm considering adding in the means for the DNAS to automatically generate an authhash for a stream when a source is connected for it and the stream is set to be public and there is no authhash present.

assuming the source provides enough information to be able to generate an authhash correctly, then this i think may resolve most of the "authhash sucks" complaints and with other pending changes / fixes, it's simple enough to change the authhash details without dropping.

so does this seem like a yes / no / i don't care i'm just going to stick with v1 cos you suck, etc ?

and if i do go ahead with it, there would be a configuration option to disable the feature as i can see in specific hosted setups this causing issues with pre-generated configurations.

-daz

Hi Daz, sounds like a good idea, would eliminate a lot of problems with multiple generated authashes.

DrO · 27th August 2012, 20:13

have already implemented it (was 90% done at the time of posting) so it'll be in the next release (does push things back a bit to finish off testing but i think it's worth a bit more of a delay).

-daz

ThiefMaster · 3rd September 2012, 13:00

Is there any ETA for the new release?

DrO · 3rd September 2012, 13:19

when it's done which is the case it has _always_ been. i'm not going to give a reply to your other post as it doesn't warrant wasting my time.

nwgator · 10th October 2012, 02:13

I see that most of the Known issues are to be resolved with the next build. I'm excited

Godspeed, DrO.

Robster400 · 11th October 2012, 00:41

Hi DrO, hoping you can enlighten me a little here, I've been trying to get a Javascript now playing working with 2.0.0.29, after unsuccessfully getting it to work, and some sleuthing, I've discovered that Wavestreaming are running SHOUTcast Server v2.2.0.88/posix(linux x64)....

So, a couple of questions if I may...
Any chance of 2.2.0.88 'nix x86 be made available to me so I can test against it?
If no

Could you confirm if there was any changes that improve javascript polling of the json?
If so, I understand reluctance to confirm any release dates due to the 'you said it would be out last week' crowd, but can you narrow it down a little, so I can either shelve the javascript json puller and implement a php solution, or wait it out for the new release.

Thanks

Robster400 · 12th October 2012, 21:35

Unable to edit my last post, but I thought I should have been more forthcoming, and just ask,

Can the version that Wavestreaming are using (SHOUTcast Server v2.2.0.88/posix) be made available please?

nwgator · 14th October 2012, 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robster400

Unable to edit my last post, but I thought I should have been more forthcoming, and just ask,

Can the version that Wavestreaming are using (SHOUTcast Server v2.2.0.88/posix) be made available please?

The build they're going to release might be a newer build than that one

. We shall see!

DrO · 15th October 2012, 12:39

build 88 is old (was up to 91 before i went on holiday) and there are still issues which need to be resolved. so no, i'm not going to give out a build based on that version. if i had an eta then i would but as issues still keep cropping up during testing, those have a repercussion and so push things back further than i'd like but as was seen from the v2.0 release, pushing to a fixed date didn't help anyone.

as for the other questions, build 29 doesn't support JSON anyway so it's no wonder that isn't work for you. when v2.2 is finalised and released then it will have JSON support.

and as an overall comment, it saddens me how many stations snoop on each other to find out such things.

-daz

Robster400 · 15th October 2012, 13:12

The only reason there has been any 'snooping' is because the JavaScript 'now playing' provided by wavestreaming on github failed to work, & like anyone else, I wanted to know why it worked for them, and not me.

There is no great conspiracy. your users are just keen for new code, as always.

DrO · 15th October 2012, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robster400

users are just keen for new code, as always.

i know all too well about that need (from both sides of the fence).

-daz

AmatureDJ · 15th October 2012, 23:02

Can we have the bugs worked out please? It's aggravating for the most part!

A new build should be on it's way ( wake up developers)

as it's been over a year since the last build.

DrO · 15th October 2012, 23:08

i am working out the bugs! that is why it's been over a year as between other things, i want to make it as stable as possible - as you would know if you'd bothered to read the prior posts and not bumped a 3+ year old thread about the site design.

AmatureDJ · 16th October 2012, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrO

i am working out the bugs! that is why it's been over a year as between other things, i want to make it as stable as possible - as you would know if you'd bothered to read the prior posts and not bumped a 3+ year old thread about the site design.

Well that's great news and I am glad that your working hard on this!

Let me ask you a question, would you happen to have a time frame to when we might see this newly improved Shoutcast Server?

So far I have read a lot on this forum, a lot is earthier outdated, old news or scripts that don't even work with anything in the last year or so.

What I have gone through and yes you have also noticed, I do prefer or rather reply to an old thread then open up a brand new one or duplicate one that already exists.

DrO · 16th October 2012, 00:50

i suggest you read a few posts up for the answer to your eta question.

Robster400 · 16th October 2012, 00:53

lol DrO, you are stubborn, I suspect you're a Yorkshireman at heart

DrO · 16th October 2012, 00:57

maybe but i doubt it as i'm constantly reminded i'm still a southern jessie despite having moved north of the watford gap (and ironically i did drink a lot of yorkshire tea last week so maybe that's what's made me more terse than normal

).

-daz

Robster400 · 16th October 2012, 01:11

Ahhh, Yorkshire tea. Its like Granite in a cup. You'll soon be a Wildman of the North at this rate.

nwgator · 17th October 2012, 01:02

Bah, UK Speak. Care to translate? :P

Oh, and I forgot to mention, let me know if you need testers DrO

. I'd be happy to help if you need it.

i93sme · 18th October 2012, 08:24

Well now,

It is not a pleasant sight to see your shoutcast server blown away by:

terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error'
what(): XML parser error: not well-formed (invalid token) at line 3

[SHOUTcast] DNAS/posix(linux x64) v2.0.0.29 (Jul 31 2011) starting up...

So, questions arise:
- is there a new release fixing it?
- is at least a workaround (I don't really need metadata, can it be turned off if it is the cause of this)?
- can at least _don't kill the process due to metadata_?

DrO · 18th October 2012, 09:41

see http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?p=2790357#known and point #11

-daz

nwgator · 24th October 2012, 00:18

Can I make a feature request? for logs, instead of E, can you make it say ERROR? It's a lot easier to search through ERROR than it is E.

DrO · 24th October 2012, 01:39

i assume you mean something like the attached image?

-daz

burnetto · 24th October 2012, 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrO

i assume you mean something like the attached image?

-daz

A Screenshot from the new version

nwgator · 24th October 2012, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrO

i assume you mean something like the attached image?

-daz

EXACTLY. Thank you.

Edit: The bandwidth usage and uptime is new! We'll see this on the Linux version too, right?

ThiefMaster · 24th October 2012, 05:26

Regarding logging, it would be really nice if SC did not dump title-update-related XML into the logfile when relaying. At least not when debug logging is disabled.

DrO · 24th October 2012, 09:15

ThiefMaster: the log output has been drastically cleaned up so what you've mentioned has long since been hidden away in the internal builds.

nwgator: yes it would also be like that for the non-Windows builds (why would i make a platform specific change to the logging

).

-daz

nwgator · 31st October 2012, 00:31

So, DrO, what all is left to do on the new release? Only curious

ram130 · 28th November 2012, 23:51

Only small bugs and stability tests from what he's been saying..I would make a feature request but don't want it to get push back..

..December, where art thou..

DrO · 29th November 2012, 00:03

you can make feature requests, that's not being stopped (and such things often drive what will be considered). my reason for my signature is to stop having to answer that question when i don't have an eta as there are things in motion which mean there is no date i can commit to.

-daz

ram130 · 29th November 2012, 02:16

Well I wasn't asking for the release date at all. Anyway thanks for clarity on making feature requests.

25th July 2012, 02:11	#83
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	there's some out there but there's a number of issues which i think are causing them as well as normal stations to hold off. so in no particular order: stability issues (i.e. all of the known issues not being quite the same compared to the v1 DNAS (no 7.html for example even though there's the /stats xml equivalent and there will be a DNAS wide /statistics coming as well as JSON/JSON-P response support on all access methods so it should be easier to pull information from the DNAS for reporting, etc) lack of v2 compatible DNAS management software which is related to the above point (though that is changing like Centova is doing a v3 public beta and radiotoolbox actually works with a v2 DNAS now) lack of resources & / or interest to work on things when the v1 does what they want i.e. don't have to do anything and can still make money off people a lack of understanding that it can be used in place of a v1 DNAS (though the first point does make that not as smooth as it could be but that is something which has been worked on) general apathy to updating since there have been some troublesome issues but most of them were in the beta phase or from a lack of people trying out the beta and then things have slipped through the net to end up in the non-beta release (hence the massive changelog the next build will have from fixing a lot of things that should have been better or worked correctly but time constraints hindered that) it's a horrible balancing act since in some areas the current v2 DNAS build is better than the v1 DNAS but then stability issues kill it being applicable for a lot of people (though the v1 DNAS would have gone through the same teething issues in its early days). i just hope that when v2.2 comes out (as v2.1 is designated as internal / test builds) that it does stand the v2 DNAS in a better light than has been the case with the prior builds. though i fear that the delay in a new build which has stemmed from adding in a number of new and useful things like JSON/JSON-P support, the means for a stream to have a backupurl to keep it going if the primary source fails and all of the bug fixes and refinements, the bad experiences some had during the betas and even with the current build has probably put them off for good -daz

11th October 2012, 00:41	#95
Robster400 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 163	Hi DrO, hoping you can enlighten me a little here, I've been trying to get a Javascript now playing working with 2.0.0.29, after unsuccessfully getting it to work, and some sleuthing, I've discovered that Wavestreaming are running SHOUTcast Server v2.2.0.88/posix(linux x64).... So, a couple of questions if I may... Any chance of 2.2.0.88 'nix x86 be made available to me so I can test against it? If no Could you confirm if there was any changes that improve javascript polling of the json? If so, I understand reluctance to confirm any release dates due to the 'you said it would be out last week' crowd, but can you narrow it down a little, so I can either shelve the javascript json puller and implement a php solution, or wait it out for the new release. Thanks *Too much is never* enough...** Last.fm Last edited by Robster400; 11th October 2012 at 02:47.

12th October 2012, 21:35	#96
Robster400 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 163	Unable to edit my last post, but I thought I should have been more forthcoming, and just ask, Can the version that Wavestreaming are using (SHOUTcast Server v2.2.0.88/posix) be made available please? *Too much is never* enough...** Last.fm

15th October 2012, 13:12	#99
Robster400 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 163	The only reason there has been any 'snooping' is because the JavaScript 'now playing' provided by wavestreaming on github failed to work, & like anyone else, I wanted to know why it worked for them, and not me. There is no great conspiracy. your users are just keen for new code, as always. *Too much is never* enough...** Last.fm

16th October 2012, 00:53	#105
Robster400 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 163	lol DrO, you are stubborn, I suspect you're a Yorkshireman at heart *Too much is never* enough...** Last.fm

25th July 2012, 01:46	#81
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	a lot of the people who have complained generally just want to click and go and don't want to have to do anything (which i can see that appealing but even the v1 DNAS wasn't like that). and really to get better adoption of the DNAS (irrespective of the version), things need to be somewhat easier to get going, or at least be more intuitive on what to run or what to enter, etc. as for the documentation, the wording of parts is not as clear as it could be or could be better described such as with images, etc as there is a lot of text and navigation maybe isn't as nice as it could or should be (as the plain text file version is likely to be dropped as the main type provided and will shift over to a html like version so it's easier to navigate between aspects). -daz

25th July 2012, 01:50	#82
nwgator Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 72	What gets me is the amount of stream providers who don't even support Shoutcast 2 yet. It's been out for quite a while now, yet they refuse to move forward. I manage my own setup, but there are a lot of people who don't.

25th July 2012, 02:21	#84
nwgator Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 72	Valid points. I love trying new things. I think already that v2 is much better than v1. I recall reading somewhere that album art support for v2 was removed, even though it was originally planned. (or did I misread somewhere?) Any plans to bring that back?

25th July 2012, 09:52	#85
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	there still is in-stream albumart support - you might be referring to it being dropped from sc_trans but that was only due to changes in the protocol specification to make things saner (as sending the artwork as base64 encoded inside the normal metadata updates wasn't ideal) and sc_trans hasn't been updated to the newer method yet. the key issue is a) the implementation has been somewhat buggy (both in the Source DSP and DNAS as they are ones which do support it) and b) there are no clients which support it to my knowledge (i've got an in-progress Winamp update that works but isn't stable and doesn't do what is expected when used with some skins). -daz

25th July 2012, 23:05	#86
nwgator Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 72	Not sure why I never asked earlier, but any plans to implement IPv6 for the DNAS/transcoder?

26th July 2012, 09:37	#87
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	it probably should happen at some stage and some of the code is in place to do it but there's no formal plans on my schedule currently. -daz

24th August 2012, 10:09	#88
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	possibly helpful DNAS setup made easier thought of the day.... i'm considering adding in the means for the DNAS to automatically generate an authhash for a stream when a source is connected for it and the stream is set to be public and there is no authhash present. assuming the source provides enough information to be able to generate an authhash correctly, then this i think may resolve most of the "authhash sucks" complaints and with other pending changes / fixes, it's simple enough to change the authhash details without dropping. so does this seem like a yes / no / i don't care i'm just going to stick with v1 cos you suck, etc ? and if i do go ahead with it, there would be a configuration option to disable the feature as i can see in specific hosted setups this causing issues with pre-generated configurations. -daz

24th August 2012, 15:51	#89
diversity Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 12	Hi daz, I think that automatically generating authhashes would improve the dnas admin experience and silence some of the v1 haters. I would say go for it, but I'm sure you have lots on your plate already. Great work on v2 so far - it took me a while to get a stable setup but all the new features make it worthwhile. Cheers, div

27th August 2012, 20:13	#91
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	have already implemented it (was 90% done at the time of posting) so it'll be in the next release (does push things back a bit to finish off testing but i think it's worth a bit more of a delay). -daz

3rd September 2012, 13:00	#92
ThiefMaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 15	Is there any ETA for the new release?

3rd September 2012, 13:19	#93
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	when it's done which is the case it has _always_ been. i'm not going to give a reply to your other post as it doesn't warrant wasting my time.

10th October 2012, 02:13	#94
nwgator Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 72	I see that most of the Known issues are to be resolved with the next build. I'm excited Godspeed, DrO.

15th October 2012, 12:39	#98
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	build 88 is old (was up to 91 before i went on holiday) and there are still issues which need to be resolved. so no, i'm not going to give out a build based on that version. if i had an eta then i would but as issues still keep cropping up during testing, those have a repercussion and so push things back further than i'd like but as was seen from the v2.0 release, pushing to a fixed date didn't help anyone. as for the other questions, build 29 doesn't support JSON anyway so it's no wonder that isn't work for you. when v2.2 is finalised and released then it will have JSON support. and as an overall comment, it saddens me how many stations snoop on each other to find out such things. -daz

15th October 2012, 23:02	#101
AmatureDJ Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 15	Can we have the bugs worked out please? It's aggravating for the most part! A new build should be on it's way ( wake up developers) as it's been over a year since the last build.

15th October 2012, 23:08	#102
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	i am working out the bugs! that is why it's been over a year as between other things, i want to make it as stable as possible - as you would know if you'd bothered to read the prior posts and not bumped a 3+ year old thread about the site design.

16th October 2012, 00:50	#104
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	i suggest you read a few posts up for the answer to your eta question.

16th October 2012, 00:57	#106
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	maybe but i doubt it as i'm constantly reminded i'm still a southern jessie despite having moved north of the watford gap (and ironically i did drink a lot of yorkshire tea last week so maybe that's what's made me more terse than normal ). -daz

16th October 2012, 01:11	#107
Robster400 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 163	Ahhh, Yorkshire tea. Its like Granite in a cup. You'll soon be a Wildman of the North at this rate. *Too much is never* enough...** Last.fm

17th October 2012, 01:02	#108
nwgator Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 72	Bah, UK Speak. Care to translate? :P Oh, and I forgot to mention, let me know if you need testers DrO . I'd be happy to help if you need it.

18th October 2012, 08:24	#109
i93sme Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1	Well now, It is not a pleasant sight to see your shoutcast server blown away by: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error' what(): XML parser error: not well-formed (invalid token) at line 3 [SHOUTcast] DNAS/posix(linux x64) v2.0.0.29 (Jul 31 2011) starting up... So, questions arise: - is there a new release fixing it? - is at least a workaround (I don't really need metadata, can it be turned off if it is the cause of this)? - can at least _don't kill the process due to metadata_?

18th October 2012, 09:41	#110
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	see http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?p=2790357#known and point #11 -daz

24th October 2012, 00:18	#111
nwgator Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 72	Can I make a feature request? for logs, instead of E, can you make it say ERROR? It's a lot easier to search through ERROR than it is E.

24th October 2012, 01:39	#112
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	i assume you mean something like the attached image? -daz Attached Thumbnails

24th October 2012, 05:26	#115
ThiefMaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 15	Regarding logging, it would be really nice if SC did not dump title-update-related XML into the logfile when relaying. At least not when debug logging is disabled.

24th October 2012, 09:15	#116
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	ThiefMaster: the log output has been drastically cleaned up so what you've mentioned has long since been hidden away in the internal builds. nwgator: yes it would also be like that for the non-Windows builds (why would i make a platform specific change to the logging ). -daz

31st October 2012, 00:31	#117
nwgator Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 72	So, DrO, what all is left to do on the new release? Only curious

28th November 2012, 23:51	#118
ram130 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New York Posts: 20	Only small bugs and stability tests from what he's been saying..I would make a feature request but don't want it to get push back.. ..December, where art thou.. Ramon

29th November 2012, 00:03	#119
DrO - Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK Posts: 21,908	you can make feature requests, that's not being stopped (and such things often drive what will be considered). my reason for my signature is to stop having to answer that question when i don't have an eta as there are things in motion which mean there is no date i can commit to. -daz

29th November 2012, 02:16	#120
ram130 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New York Posts: 20	Well I wasn't asking for the release date at all. Anyway thanks for clarity on making feature requests. Ramon

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