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#1 |
Forum King
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"tech supports greatest" misses
while there is a lot of good, useful info there, a lot of the articles at the very least need refreshed, such as this one:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=64962 i'd be willing to post a draft, IF egg or DrO or someone was willing to seriously consider it. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#2 |
Hiding in plain sight (mod)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,910
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go for it,
it needs lots of work... perhaps needs to be started from scratch. |
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#3 |
Forum King
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Many people use id3 tags, and don't know, or want/need to know, what they are. basically, mp3s, and many other formats, use id3 tags to attach "metadata" or info about a data file, within the file itself. that way the info travels with the data. text strings are the most common id3 info, things like song title, artist name, or album title for example. but other things can go in there as well, like artwork. you can read about the id3 standard here: www.id3.org id3v1 the original, and now obsolete standard was id3v1 and id3v1.1 ...while you can still use these, and some very old devices / software will only work with them, best practices is to not use them and strip them, unless you need them for some specific reason. they are limited in what info they can contain, and how many characters you can put into them. so a song title for example, can only be 30 characters and there is no "frame" or field of entry at all for "Album Artist." it is best to strip v1.x tags, because otherwise the data in them may become divergent with hopefully present id3v2.x tags, (and ergo confuse some software or devices, or even users! ;) id3v1.x tags are stored at the end of a file. http://www.id3.org/ID3v1 id3v2 id3v2.x tags are now the de facto standard for mp3 and many other lossy file types. id3v2.3 is probably the best supported, but 2.2 and 2.4 are also out there. 2.4 has some advantages in abilities, but is not widely popular nor nearly as well supported as 2.3 these tags support many more "frames" or fields of info, and without the character limitations. id3v2.x tags are stored at the beginning of a file. winamp recommends only using id3v2.3 unless you have a special, specific need to use something else. you can configure winamp to not create id3v1.x tags by going to options > prefs > plugins > input > in_mp3.dll > configure > id3 tags tab. http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0 id3 file types include: mp3, MP3Pro (dead format), MPC (MusePack), AAC Winamp and id3 in most cases, winamp will handle your tags for you. it has "autotag" features, and will simultaneously update both v1 and v2 tags, or add them. you can also use the powerful ML to do edits or mass edits manually. be sure to investigate the prefs controlling metadata, especially on the "Watch folders" prefs dialog. power users will want to turn off all "metadata guessing" winamp does, which you do in two places in watch folders, and they will also want to turn off "use artist as album artist." doing these things are important to be able to see the reality of the data in the tags. however, there are times a powerful tag editor is needed. the best tag editor out there, is mp3tag, which thankfully is also free but does solicit donations. www.mp3tag.de/en mp3tag can scan for and repair "bad" malformed tags in files, as well as mass strip other tag types out of files. it can also, via a cut and paste operation, turn all tags, like id3v1, into proper id3v2.3 tags, (and remove the other tags). when winamp won't do the trick, mp3tag almost always does. and like winamp, it works with nearly all file and tag types. other tags there are other tag types, such as APEv1 and APEv2, Lyrics3, and Vorbis. but since this forum title is "id3 tagging info" we will not address them here. winamp recommends best practices is to remove these types of tags from mp3s anyway, unless you have a specific need or desire for them to be present. other info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3 http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information http://www.id3.org/Implementations PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#4 |
Forum King
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pretty rough, i know. and i think we should split things up, between id3 and everything else, meaning the other tag types. i think its confused to put non id3 tags under a forum thread for id3 info.
however, i think its important to streamline things, give some hints about how winamp things work, and point people to the best apps, as opposed to an overwhelming list of them. mp3tag can do everything, do we really need a list of apps just for id3v1? the current post is too unfocused. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#5 | |
Forum King
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,832
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Quote:
What's overwhelming about a four or five item list? Obsolete and unsupported links to outdated info and unsupported apps do need to be updated or removed. Some link to a history of progression should be maintained for those interested in how things got to be how they are. This helps keep 'old' bad ideas from reemerging as 'new' bad ideas. MP3tag may do everything that practically needs doing, but it is not the best at doing them all. One example, the way it handles editing of the ID3 'TBPM' tag is overly complicated. Windows 10 Home 64-bit v21H2 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system |
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#6 |
Forum King
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i disagree, but more importantly, i actually posted a full bodied suggestion, not just a critique.
what i am suggesting, is that it does in fact make sense for winamp to "push" best practices, instead of trying to maintain old and obsolete practices. although, the way i would put it is: there's nothing wrong with an app saying 'this [whatever "this" happens to be] works best with [the app].' the current thread is overwhelming and unfocused, and doesn't help winamp serve its users or reduce support load. worst of all, it is uninformative as to qualitative judgments, and thats what a thread like that needs imo, is expert guidence to the uninformed. having said that, the current thread would not be deleted, it just wouldn't be a sticky anymore, and i would suggest that the "new" sticky thread be left open, so people could add to it, but that the first post in it be kept succinct and concise. as far as BPM goes, such minutia is not the point of such a thread. at the most, it should be covered in a followup post. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#7 | |||
Forum King
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,832
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The only thing wrong with the current thread considering it's content, is it's title. It's age accounts for the broken links and some outdated examples. Qualitative judgments can also be viewed as subjective opinions. I find it refreshing that the author tries to just present a few facts and leaves judgments (and further reading/research) up to the reader. I don't understand what is overwhelming about that thread. It discussed more than one tagging format, but I'm sure you can 'walk and chew gum at the same time'. ![]() Who associated with WA is recommending these best practices you've stated; management, devs, users? Where are these 'best practices' officially listed? I guess it's just a coincidence that this expert guidance you speak of just happens to match your point of view. By the way, nice use of "we" (in your draft) to imply some sort of collaboration. There's nothing wrong with pushing your point of view, but there's no need to try giving it more weight than it already has. Quote:
I guess it is a point of such a thread to push mp3tag as the only 3rd party tagger worth using. Windows 10 Home 64-bit v21H2 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system |
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#8 | |||||||||
Forum King
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i found this whole post almost entirely petulent and childish. raise your standards.
also, reread what Rocker, a moderator, in this thread wrote. Quote:
and it says EXACTLY what i intended it to say. a hallmark of winamp writing is humor, thats what that is. if you didn't get it, thats too bad. Quote:
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and of course qualitative judgments are subjective opinons, thats what i was going for! the whole point is to show the way to best practices, which in turn educates the reader, and lightens the support load. Quote:
maybe thats because mp3tag IS the de facto standard for tagging. just a guess. Quote:
again, my POV is based on my exp, and my years of use. it is my SUGGESTION, and they can adopt it, or not. Quote:
first of all, IF THEY CHOOSE TO ADOPT IT, then obviously IT BECOMES A COLLABORATION! DUH! is that not obvious to you? if they choose to adopt it, then the article is representing a "we" as in the we of winamp devs. again, too far a bridge for you to cross mentally, or what? you are pretty close minded for a hippie. Quote:
and its listed under the FIRST FORUM LISTED, so its basically like a sticky, not that that has anything to do with anything. Quote:
total dickhead comment. (and also not what i said) PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#9 |
Forum King
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,832
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Boy, I really got your heart pumping! First I suggest you calm down.
Your POV and Rocker's are just that and equally valid for that reason alone. My POV is valid for the same reason. I have not spent years on this forum. I have spent several days using it's search feature and reading posts. I have spent several years using WA. I do not see a lock icon on that thread and falsely assumed it wasn't locked. After trying to post there, I see it is restricted. Still learning my way around this forum. Being new here should not make my attempts to contribute any less worthy. I know you understand the concept of constructive criticism, but it is oblivious you do not see my comments as such. You say most of my comments (in post #7) are petulant and childish. Some snarky and rude. Some of your comments here and elsewhere can be viewed the same way. Maybe you sometimes don't 'get' my dry wit, as I sometimes misunderstand your sense of humor. If the WA 'powers that be' accept your post or anyone else's as a sticky or FAQ post, without contributing to it, it is not a collaboration. It is simply yours or that person's contribution and no less valid than if someone officially connected with WA actually contributed to it, not just authorized it. I think I've always tried to understand your POV, even more so when I've disagreed with it. Must have been doing a poor job showing that. Going forward, I hope we can agree to disagree in a better way. I have started a thread that I hope can be edited into a sticky or FAQ post. It's on a different topic, but feel free to 'crap' all over it. I see nothing wrong with presenting different viewpoints, critical or supportive. I think it's the best way to arrive at something that helps the most people. I'm a firm believer that there is always more than one way to do anything, if you look for it. If that's being unfocused, then so be it. As long as I can remember, I've always asked why and why not. I understand the need for rules, but I don't work well with arbitrary or unexplained restrictions. http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=345216 Oh fyi, I'm not now nor ever was a hippie. Have no problem with those that are or were. Peace and love is cool and all, but I believe violence has it's place also. Sometimes it comes down to kill or be killed, best to try to avoid those situations, but never run from them. ![]() Windows 10 Home 64-bit v21H2 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system |
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#10 |
Major Dude
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
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Small bit of feedback from a part time technical proof reader. (Oh - and sorry - I have skipped the banter between you and Aminifu as it was tl;dr and seemed to just get personal.)
I hope you are going to clean up the punctuation. It looks awful without proper capitalisation. Like some illiterate kid wrote it. And I know you ain't that. ![]() I'd also tone down some of the "best practices" comments as it comes over a little preachy. This will put a lot of people off of reading it. This is how you do your tags and I think it would be better written in a more personal tone. "Here is the way I do it" or "One option is to..." or "The method I prefer gives me clear results because...". It makes it clear that there are other ways while also sounding friendlier and less like Teacher. Winamp is so flexible it allows us all to use our own methods. (For example - I hate embedded artwork and ratings. But that is just my personal choice. Make personal choice clear) I think you should throw this document at a mate of yours to read. Ideally one who doesn't know much about Winamp. You'll get more feedback then. Currently this seems to be missing a lot of details whilst also staying technical. It is clear it is being written by someone who knows his subject, but has also forgotten what is important to put over to the dumb idiots who are likely to be reading this. There needs to be a little more simplification of the language. When talking a technical subject like ID Tags you need to try and get away using technical descriptions and jargon to the extent you are. Remember that the average user of MP3 players doesn't really care. So you need to hook that person in as to why they should care. Make it sound more interesting. Writing a manual is always a nightmare - who do you pitch it at? Do you write for the technical person who wants to know all the details? Or do you write for the idiot who owns an iPod and hasn't got a clue what an MP3 actually is? Or somewhere in the middle? It's a tricky art. |
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#11 | ||||||
Forum King
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you guys can disagree all day long, i have no beef with that. but this is MY suggestion, this is MY approach. you guys are free to craft and posit your own. Quote:
and i tried to avoid niche issues like tag implementations, such as ratings or art. what i am trying to cover here is tag standards, and focus on that alone. Quote:
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again, i'm not saying it can't be improved, but i'm happy with the general thrust and philosophical choices i made in doing so. if you guys don't like it, suggest your own. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#12 | |||||||||
Forum King
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the mods here may very well agree with you two and not me, but that doesn't mean i need to change what i would do. it just means they wouldn't do what i would do. and so they can do their own thing or do nothing. but imo, my proposal is head and shoulders better than what they have there currently, and Rocker, a mod and authority, would at least seem to agree that whats there sucks. Quote:
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what BP did was constructive criticism. what you did was not. nor was it humor. it was pure crapping on what you didn't like. and sure, i have been rude on here many times, but never, NEVER towards someone who was suggesting something for the betterment of the community. it doesn't mean i had to agree with them, but i don't crap on them either. Quote:
of course, arguing over this point has nothing to do with anything re: id3, but you seem intent on arguing over such things. like if a thread is locked or not. Quote:
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and that has nothing to do with anything. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#13 |
Major Dude
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,665
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Sorry. I thought you asked for opinions on what you wrote. I was trying to give you feedback as I often have to write technical guides. There was no need for such an angry response.
/unsubscribed. |
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#14 | |
Forum King
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Quote:
however, i think its fair for me to be annoyed. you guys are criticizing me/what i wrote, as if it deserves to be picked apart and autopsied and is totally crap to your impeccable standards. frankly, i don't appreciate that approach. and at no point did i ask for opinions on what i wrote, but it goes without saying anyone is free to offer them on a forum. my problem isn't criticism, but the way its delivered, and for the most part, that problem wasn't with you; although frankly i do think its rude to say things like "try to be more interesting" which is like telling a comedian "try to be more funny," but it didn't really bother me. in fact, maybe i should meet someone and say "try to be better looking." thats a joke. if you didn't like it, tell me to try to be more funny. ![]() anyway, like i said, i can't help it if you see my response as "angry" but i can say i wasn't when responding to you. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#15 |
Hiding in plain sight (mod)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,910
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MrSinatra I like what you've done, however maybe a tread with information about file info, rather than just id3 tagging is more appropriate?
![]() ID3 is so outdated, and I don't really think its particularly relevant anymore... whats your thoughts? I really only use the mp3 format these days in my archives or transcode my files onto my ipod seldomly(since I can send flac to my phone recently). when storage is this cheap and internet is this fast whats really the purpose of the mp3 file format aside from compatibility? perhaps a new thread detailing recommended file formats and tagging information would be more relevent as a long standing solution? highlighting the benefits of free and lossless formats for a long term solution. the more people who want to use flac or vorbis the more devices there will be that will support it(over paid for solutions which are no better in the end). discuss I have attached what I believe to be sawgs original post, I think however we'll make a totally new thread out of this.(I don't think he'll mind heh) |
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#16 | ||||
Forum King
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i am not an expert in mp3 itself, but i consider myself fairly educated regarding id3 in them. i'd certainly be game to try to write something about mp3, as i'm not a novice with it either; but could you give me an idea about what you'd like covered? i do think APE and Vorbis and so on should also be covered, but in their own threads. i would def be willing to help contribute to such an effort, but i'm not sure i should write those articles, i'm just not expert in them. Quote:
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in a broader sense, i agree that anyone starting a collection now should do all FLAC, for any number of good reasons. i certainly have several thousand FLACs myself. Quote:
i def think winamp should write or encourage articles that push "best practices" that are both logical, and to winamps benefit in that if people follow the advice, they will have less support issues. what was once a wild west, has now, imo, mostly settled down. to me, the clear winners in local media are mp3/id3, and FLAC/Vorbis. (its hard to discount completely what apple does, mp4 and ALAC, but those aren't much different really). while winamp should continue to support all the formats it can, (which it needs to for streaming) i think winamp would benefit users to say, "here's what works best for most situations" and if a lot of people conform to that, it then will benefit winamp b/c there will be fewer esoteric situations foisted on winamp by users, ergo less support requests. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#17 |
Forum King
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my FAQ post should be corrected:
AAC does NOT use id3, (which i had there b/c Sawg or whoever had it in their orig post), it uses atoms i think, like mp4 does. i think it is possible to hack id3 into AAC like the way u can a FLAC or Wav, but like those, you prob shouldn't. so in any case, AAC should be removed from the list in the FAQ post. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#18 |
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
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AAC is the raw audio format and you seem to be confusing things with talk of atoms, as that's related to the mp4 container format implementation and not tagging directly.
-daz |
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#19 |
Forum King
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well, perhaps so, let me state it this way:
i know id3 and mp3, this is what i'm versed in. i know next to nothing about mp4 and AAC and atoms. i do not know how AAC / MP4 / Atoms relate to each other, inter-operate or whats native or whatever. i do believe however, that i was misled by Sawgs post which said AAC uses id3, and that is what i was attempting to correct. are you saying AAC natively uses id3? and if not, what does it use natively? PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#20 |
Forum King
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London
Posts: 6,072
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AFAIK it goes like this :
There is no standard for AAC tags, or didn't used to be anyway. Raw AAC (with .aac extention) adopted ID3 tags, and get sent to in_mp3 for decoding. itunes style AAC (in an .mp4 container) uses itunes tags and get sent to in_mp4 for decoding. UJ |
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#21 |
Forum King
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interesting.
the problem though, is i have found next to no info via google regarding using AAC and id3 together. so are you saying that an AAC file that is not in a mp4 container, and that has no tags, will, if tag edited by winamp, get a new id3 tag inserted into it? my problem is i haven't found any info one way or the other about this. PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#22 |
Forum King
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London
Posts: 6,072
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I think that's the way it works MrS.
Raw .aac supports standard IFF type headers, so mp3 was the obvious choice. If you want to look further, maybe make up a few sample files and compare them in a Hex Editor. UJ |
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#23 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1
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My Wish... it's simply: Mp3 Auto-Tag with Info + AlbumArt + Lyrics in one click! For 1 or multiple MP3 files...
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#24 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1
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Hi
I have for years tried to find a tool that is printing out id3 info on .txt or other text file inside the album folder. like Artist: bla bla Genre: 199* language: blala etc etc with some options to select the output Please give me some tips of a program that can do this and i am happy for a long time ![]() Greetings from sweden |
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#25 |
Major Dude
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 747
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Try Mp3tag.
http://help.mp3tag.de/main_export.html Windows 10 Home, 64 bit, Winamp 5.666, Bento Skin |
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#26 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
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Hello everyone. Maybe You can help for this.
What program I need to use to do example id3v2 tags: http://www.imagebam.com/image/20ab9b398349759 How to do it for example tags for other files (unchecked id3v2 tag information and still has full name song info)? If someone know please write tutorial (step by step) what program what options etc. Best regards. |
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#27 |
Forum King
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I don't understand what you want to do, but I am sure mp3tag will do it.
PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#28 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
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Quote:
For remind: http://www.imagebam.com/image/20ab9b398349759 |
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#29 |
Forum King
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you can configure mp3tag so it will read all the tags, and then save only the 2.3 tags and erase the others. its not that hard to do, but u need to DL and experiment with it, they have forums there as well. also see:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=345521 PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/ -- BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing |
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#30 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3
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Hi thanks for your reply. You know how to do it? Or not? My english is not to good to understand thoroughly that topic. I need a tutorial like screenshots how to do.
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#31 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 30
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When i attach a image, after tagging it doesnt show.
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#32 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
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some of the screenshoot showing error
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