Microsoft have gone CRAZY!!! }: (

[Lingo]

No... NOOO... I could see this coming!!
Check this link.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win.../bonuspack.asp

The cheap-assed sons of bitches have made a WINAMP SKIN IMPORTER FOR WiMP 7!!!! Oh NOO!!!

What do you think?
I think it's terrible. They're running out of ideas, so they turn to leech off Winamp. That's just sad. Just too sad.

But, I suppose there are some good things for WiMP AND Winamp fans... but I still think its sad.

-=Lingo=-

[piesupreme]

is winamp, or to be more precise nullsoft under copyright? if it is they are NOT allowed to do that, unless a certain person has gave them permission....
NO! PLEASE JUSTIN NO!!!

[KevM]

Well, looks like micro$oft has stollen winamp's interface.

But it still sucks, oh well i guess they cant come up with their own ideas any more

If they can do this i guess other people should be able to make programs that use m$'s file formats any way they want.

[Kaboon]

Originally posted by KevM
i guess other people should be able to make programs that use m$'s file formats any way they want.

That's not true what you've said there. e.g. WMA you need a licence for that too use it. And I even belive it's with every filetype like that, you'll need somekind of licence. (correct me if i'm wrong please.)

[John M]

Originally posted by Brennan in his .plan
- Microsoft importing Winamp skins, huh? Well, I assume they're already aware that they're fucking lame-ass lamo fucks, so I needn't mention it here.

I'm the last one to come to the defense of Microsoft, but they didn't create the WMP "Bonus Pack" (which includes the "Winamp Skin Importer"). They expressly say "The Bonus Pack components are not supported by Microsoft Corporation". I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure MS consulted with their lawyers and feel pretty safe (from a legal standpoint) making this available on their web site.

I don't like it because it doesn't take into consideration the rights of the skinner/artist. I think most people will be importing skins created by someone else. That is the travesty. That is rape. If the skinner had wanted to skin WMP, they would have done so in the first place. They obviously chose Winamp as their "application of choice" to skin. I don't use WMP by the way. It is the most bloated piece of crapware I've ever seen.

Anyway, this is the lowdown on who really created the "Winamp Skin Importer". Along with his email (as posted on the Microsoft web site), just in case you want to contact him.

Again, this was copied and pasted directly from the Microsoft web site:

"Winamp Skin Importer (WA2WMP.EXE 0.9) is written by Zach Robinson ( zachdms@hotmail.com ) and Pat Winkler. It was created as a fun proof of concept. Theoretically, you could write a utility to import skins from most other players."

[Lingo]

Okay. I just took a look at the "Newly available Updates for Windows Media Player 7, Brought to you from Mirtosoft".
List.
Adaptec CD Writing Plugin - 8.8mb
Windows Media Player - 8.3mb **REQUIRED UPDATE**
Windows Media Player Extensions - 6.3mb **REQUIRED UPDATE**
Windows Media Player Bonus Pack - 8.0mb *Hot Update!*
Default Windows Media Player Playlist - 1.3mb

The required updates HAVE to be installed.
The Hot updates are the most bloated unnecessary piles of crap ever.
The Adaptec plugin is useless.
The default playlist contains a shit preview of a shit Beck song.

WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS?
GET WINAMP - ITS NOT AS BLOATED AS THIS UNWORTHY "EFFORT".

-=Lingo=-

[s1138]

AOL owns winamp, so if MS asked AOL, then they can do that.
i dont think it is right, but from a legal standpoint, they can

[monocle]

Originally posted by s1138
AOL owns winamp, so if MS asked AOL, then they can do that.
i dont think it is right, but from a legal standpoint, they can

I am sorry, but the more times I hear that AOL owns Winamp (Nullsoft) the more I realize that is not just a bad dream and that it may actually be true. Excuse me while I shoot myself.

[piesupreme]

i just had this convo with the man himself.

ticitici slim slady says:
so you're the infamous skin importer maker
Zach Robinson says:
<grin> that's funny.
Zach Robinson says:
umm: yes.
ticitici slim slady says:
nice idea
Zach Robinson says:
it's just a proof of concept, really: you can skin any application. calc.wmz, skins calc.exe, for example.
ticitici slim slady says:
is there anything legal in there?
Zach Robinson says:
huh?
Zach Robinson says:
(IANAL)
ticitici slim slady says:
i mean are you allowed to use the skins from one program on another program without the users permission?
Zach Robinson says:
you're referring to the winamp user forum comments?
ticitici slim slady says:
yeah
Zach Robinson says:
the question you raise seems to be whether or not a skin author has chosen to solely isolate their skin for usage within one app.
ticitici slim slady says:
sort of
ticitici slim slady says:
but the skin makers will get no credit for that program
Zach Robinson says:
well, anybody redist'ing converted skins is pretty lame, IMHO. i mean, you can do a jointly winamp/wmp hostable skin, which *is* cool, but... converted skins should be for your own use, right?
Zach Robinson says:
if there was a standardized way of identifying skin authors within the winamp skinning world, i'd be interesting in knowing that, so i could update the copyright field in the converted skin. i couldn't find one, though.
ticitici slim slady says:
ok, thanx for your time.

ignoring the slim shady thing, he came up with a reasonable argument.
whaddya think? was that useless?

Originally posted by piesupreme
Zach Robinson says:
if there was a standardized way of identifying skin authors within the winamp skinning world, i'd be interesting in knowing that, so i could update the copyright field in the converted skin. i couldn't find one, though.

Actually there is a generally accepted way that skin authors claim right to their work. They include a readme.txt file in the zip/wsz stating they are the original creator of the skin and redistribution or any other use of the graphics without their permission is not acceptable. Most people respect that. Apparently Zach Robinson doesn't. I don't accept his argument.

[Kevin]

If Nullsoft wanted to catch a few million dollars, they could probably sue MS and settle out of court. They would just give ya some money (millions are pocket change to Microsoft, don't forget) and not mention it to press.

Hmmmm, I just might do that myself...

[Ice]

i assume that the copyright feild in the wmp skin file is just one line. the readme.txt file in a winamp skin is multi lines. how is his app suppose to know which line to use for the copyright?

i'd think there would be some legal issues.. aol and microsoft haven't been the most friendly to eachother in recent years. they are linking the winamp base skin and using it so, i'd think, they would be violating copyright laws.

[Flynnz]

I don't like or use WMP7, but just thought I'd point out...

In response to randman's latest post: according to what I understand about this skin importer, Zach Robinson isn't distributing them at all. He just provides the utility to use them in WMP. He's not doing anything wrong.

[flatmatt]

I would assume this guy didn't incluse the nifty skin info box in this thing?

Originally posted by Flynnz
I don't like or use WMP7, but just thought I'd point out...

In response to randman's latest post: according to what I understand about this skin importer, Zach Robinson isn't distributing them at all. He just provides the utility to use them in WMP. He's not doing anything wrong.

I agree that he isn't directly infringing on anyone's artwork, I'm just saying he's made a program that has made infringement easier for others. And in my opinion, using someone else's graphics without their permission is a big no-no. (Unless it stays on that individuals computer).

Trust me, the big name skinners like Steve Moss, Misery, Dangeruss, $teven, etc. will raise hell if anyone publicly posts a WMP skin using their graphics. They do copyright their graphics.

[Flynnz]

"I'm just saying he's made a program that has made infringement easier for others."

I don't see how... Anyone can open up a Winamp skin and take out any graphics they want. Anyone can also redistribute a Winamp skin "illegally". (ie: put it up for download on their site)

Besides all that, I don't even see why anyone would want to distribute a WMP copy of a Winamp skin when anyone can get the importer program.

[Lingo]

Whew! I've made a popular topic!

([{**Has anyone seen my lame ads? Rate them out of ten please! **}])

-=Lingo=-

[flatmatt]

The issue, I think, is not re-distribution of skins. It is using them in a way they were not intended to be used, on a shitty media player. If I wanted my skins on WiMP I would make "Shit Amp"

I think anyone who would want Winamp skins for WiMP would just download them from winamp.com.

[Ice]

Originally posted by randman
Trust me, the big name skinners like Steve Moss, Misery, Dangeruss, $teven, etc. will raise hell if anyone publicly posts a WMP skin using their graphics. They do copyright their graphics.

anything in tangable form is copyrighted.

I don't disagree with you Flynnz. Although if someone puts a Winamp skin on their site and claims it as their own work, that is theft.

Sorry, I'm just a little touchy about skins being ripped. I agree with you that most (if not all) people will use the skin importer for their personal use. And that's fine. My initial reaction may have been an initial overreaction.

OK, I'm done ranting on this subject mmmkay?

[Edited by randman on 12-19-2000 at 09:56 PM]

[John M]

I just think the will of the artist is violated if they create a winamp skin and it is then used for WiMP. And its fucked, too - mine salutes kernel32 when i hit the shuffle button. tee hee.

[justin]

As far as whether or not we care about WMP7 supporting our skins-- we don't really.. If anything it just drives more awareness of Winamp, and users to us (WMP7 with Winamp skins isn't very reponsive and IMO sucks ..

As far as skinners having their copyrights respected.. Microsoft puts a little blurb in there about how you should get permission from the skin author... anyway..

-Justin

[Dibble]

I don't think that it is right to be able to do this with the skins. But, even though the author is an asshole for letting microsoft distribute his "proof-of-concept", I don't think that the best idea is to go after him or microsoft. Instead, I would make the skins for winamp unportable. If someone knew how his software worked, make skins that can't be run through there. Or, better yet...In all new winamp skins, maybe a little MS Sucks in the corner.

Just my $0.02.

--dibble

[whiteflip]

I agree with the fact that WMP is so bloated and all that other f*cking shit. Its 30 something megabyte download and i can only get connection speeds of 26.4 Kb/s. That is just shitty. I can use the adaptec plugin because I have an Iomega external CD-RW drive (a terrible choice but one of the cheapest for external drives since I have a laptop) and I can do the whole mp3 to cd thing with windows me since Iomegas software sucks ass too. The whole thing about microsoft stealing skins is just sad and I think that WMP is one of the worst possible ideas ever concived for software. Luckly I found Windows Media Player 6.4 on my both my computers after installing WMP so I just switched back to that. I will give WMP one good point and its that it pipes cd audio through the Wave driver. Most people think that its a terrible thing but I have an external CD drive too (being a laptop user) and it wont play cd audio through CD audio drivers so I just use WMP as my cd player. Yeah go Nullsoft wo who yippy im bored. Hey I have macaroni salid. I like that kind of salid hehe.

[whiteflip]

Justin is cool

[Flynnz]

By the way, Winamp can do that too now - with the assistance of the CD Reader plugin.

According to Justin, it will also be implemented in v2.8 which should be out sometime in January.

[carlito_au]

weren't they always crazy?

and btw, i hate wmp... i use v6.4.???????? - and i dont think i will upgrade to the bloated piece of crap thay named version 7

[Extremecriticiser]

Look, if Bill Gates wanna buy AOL, he can do so with a snap of a finger. If he really wnated AOL to go bakrupt, he can do that just as easily. It's like David & Golaith, but not in the fantasy good-always-win world like that, but in the real world; big always win.

To Microsoft AOL is just a pain in the neck. But instead of taking aspirin to sooth the pain, Microsoft is ignoring it, waiting for it to go away. If Microsoft wanna use Winamp skins, they bloody well can, cos if AOL/Nullsoft don't agree, Golaith eats David for breakfast.

So personally, I think its sickening, but typical. Remember MSN Explorer? Indisputed AOL clone! Remember Windows 98? They ripped off Macintosh OS, smack in some stuffs and made it their own. And they can bloody well do that, cos Golaith eats little Davids like Nullsoft andAOL for breakfast.

[a-arse]

Why does everyone say Microsoft and AOL Sucks?
Well they do I suppose But If it wasn't for AOL there may not be a winamp (you never know) and If it wasn't for Microsoft most of you wouldn't have an O/S we'd all be using macs ()
OK?
please send hate mail to: pandy@pandy.org
Have a nice day

Another thing shouldn't the authors of the Skins have the say of who uses their skin? They made these skins for winamp not WMP 7

I could just grin all day

[piesupreme]

micro$oft has the most bug-ridden software ever. almost every micro$oft program i have, it has at least performed an illegal operation somewhere. why can't bill gates just admit that windows is the work of the devil?

[RacingCaptain]

While we're on the subject the Microshit sucks, will WinAmp 3 come with a linux flavour? Pls?

[a-arse]

Originally posted by piesupreme
micro$oft has the most bug-ridden software ever. almost every micro$oft program i have, it has at least performed an illegal operation somewhere. why can't bill gates just admit that windows is the work of the devil?

Bug ridden software that they've made Billions with
and bill gates (probably) doesn't right the software anymore he just pays some really good programmers to do It but they dont seem to be able to et rid of the bugs.

OMIGOD im standing up for microsoft SOMEONE SHOOT ME pleeeeeeaaassseee!

[bjay125]

Just wanted to point out that someone has written an app that converts Winamp 2.x skins to QCD 3.x. And isn't there a clock prog which can use Winamp skins? Just wanted to let you guys know that MS isn't the first to rip Winamp skins. As a maker of skins myself, I would be quite flattered to find someone who has taken one of my Winamp skins and is using it with WMP7.

[piesupreme]

Originally posted by a-arse

Bug ridden software that they've made Billions with
and bill gates (probably) doesn't right the software anymore he just pays some really good programmers to do It but they dont seem to be able to et rid of the bugs.

OMIGOD im standing up for microsoft SOMEONE SHOOT ME pleeeeeeaaassseee!

the only reason people use it is because there is no readily availible alternative for the general public to use.

<marquee>and that sucks.</marquee>

[carlito_au]

microsoft probably make their software full of bugs to force people to upgrade to their next peice of crap!

[Extremecriticiser]

Originally posted by a-arse
and If it wasn't for Microsoft most of you wouldn't have an O/S we'd all be using macs ()

What's wrong with Macintosh??!! Mac is faster, more stable, easier to use and hogs WAY less memory and system resource than Windows 95/98/ME/2000!

Obviously this guy doesn't know the truth about business. Another basics of business is "Good doesn't mean popular, less popular doesn't mean bad."

You're all using Win 98/ME right now NOT because it's good, but because you and thousands of companies out there have fallen prey to Microsoft's sheer marketing tactics. I went to Download.com recently and guess howmany downloaded WMP 7? Over 1 million! Why? Cos they have fallen prey to Microsoft's marketing - and so have you all (except for a few wise ones), and so have I, cos I have no choice, cos so many companies out there have, too.

[steve]

The topic of legalality is unimportant. Microsoft themselves got sued by Apple way back when over the Trash concept. Although they were similar in fuction, they're appearance were slightly different. Microsoft won the law suit. Thus, the court basically said that a User Interface is not copyrightable.

When I saw what had been done, I was actually quite mad about it. To tell you the truth, I didn't like the idea that Microsoft was now enabling their minions to rip off our skins. Then I used it. Once that happened, I didn't even care. It's quite a pisspoor implementation of our skins, and Microsoft should be ashamed for associating Windows Media Player with it. I am well aware that the conversion tool is a proof of concept, meaning, it's a hacked together app to see if it worked. That's great that it did, however, if Microsoft was going to advertise it, they should have written it themselves.

After playing with the converted skins, it is quite obvious that it's not the same experience that you get through Winamp. Windows Media Player, seemingly, performs slower, when using a Winamp Skin. I don't see the bulk of users out there taking advantage of this feature. However, this opens a gate. One that I'm definately not happy about. I imagine seeing a few others out there, trying to compete in this rough market, immplementing something quite similar. I think that this is poor sportsmanship, however, they will do it, and so be it.

I'll enjoy watching people implementing a Winamp3 Skin Converter. That's going to be quite the challenge.

For all of you wondering, I don't see Nullsoft/AOL suing over this issue. It would be counter productive and benefit no one. Just a waste of money. I'm glad that Microsoft has acknowledged our dominance in the market by agreeing to support our skinning format. It's quite the honor to have Microsoft indirectly say, you guys rule.

just my 2 cents.
-steve

BTW, anything I said above is my opinion explicitatly and not that of Nullsoft or America Online Inc. Republication of any of which has been said in this post is strictly forbidden without my prior concent. Thank you, you asschomping word twisting, shit stirring, news hounds.

[a-arse]

Originally posted by Extremecriticiser

What's wrong with Macintosh??!! Mac is faster, more stable, easier to use and hogs WAY less memory and system resource than Windows 95/98/ME/2000!

Obviously this guy doesn't know the truth about business. Another basics of business is "Good doesn't mean popular, less popular doesn't mean bad."

You're all using Win 98/ME right now NOT because it's good, but because you and thousands of companies out there have fallen prey to Microsoft's sheer marketing tactics. I went to Download.com recently and guess howmany downloaded WMP 7? Over 1 million! Why? Cos they have fallen prey to Microsoft's marketing - and so have you all (except for a few wise ones), and so have I, cos I have no choice, cos so many companies out there have, too.

I understand that macs are good and all that but to upgrade a mac costs so much more than a computer does and the software for the mac although good there is little of it and I have never owned any WMP (unless Microsoft have pt it on my comp without my knowledge)

You say mac Is much fatser? It may be now but the computer Is being improved all the time whilst there are less companys working on the mac.
I was not standing up for Microsoft but computers which I prefer over macs I was just saying that as computers are cheaper (as to my knowledge) than macs Windows is the O/S that I would prefer to use over a mac

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by steve
It's quite the honor to have Microsoft indirectly say, you guys rule.

And THAT has to be a great reward, whether you like Microsoft or not.