Old 12th May 2014, 01:12   #1
djpete
Major Dude
 
djpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 940
Video from CEO of Radionomy

Click the top pinned story to see.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/WinampEnthusiasts/

Cheers, Pete

Anything & Everything Winamp - All In One Place...
Winamp Enthusiasts Group
djpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 12:38   #2
ryerman
Major Dude
 
ryerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 659
Do you have a link to the video without going through Facebook?
Some people (like me) don't join "social networking" sites.
Similar to Groucho Marx when he said: "I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member"

Windows 10 Home, 64 bit, Winamp 5.666, Bento Skin
ryerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 12:41   #3
djpete
Major Dude
 
djpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 940
http://tech.eu/features/771/radionom...winamp-future/

Cheers, Pete

Anything & Everything Winamp - All In One Place...
Winamp Enthusiasts Group
djpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 13:00   #4
ryerman
Major Dude
 
ryerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 659
Thanks!

You can probably take some credit for helping the CEO to realize that there are lots of Winamp users.

Windows 10 Home, 64 bit, Winamp 5.666, Bento Skin
ryerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 13:19   #5
djpete
Major Dude
 
djpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 940
We all can take credit ryerman.
I hadn't seen that interview before.
An actual timeline of end of year was something of substance we've all been waiting for.

Cheers, Pete

Anything & Everything Winamp - All In One Place...
Winamp Enthusiasts Group
djpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 14:53   #6
thinktink
Forum King
 
thinktink's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: On the streets of Kings County, CA.
Posts: 3,008
Send a message via Skype™ to thinktink
What I got from this video is they're going to dump Winamp 5, make a completely new "media player" from scratch that only works on non-desktop compatible mobile devices, and then slap the Nullsoft Winamp brand sticker on it ultimately screwing over Windows desktop users.

There is nothing in this video to indicate that they will continue development on the Windows desktop client.

At this point, I would still have preferred Microsoft bought Winamp/SHOUTcast. It couldn't have been any worse than this.

If my analysis is not true then Radionomy needs a MUCH better PR department.



thinktink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 17:57   #7
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
and my repeated posting and looking into issues hasn't shown that the desktop client is far from not going to be maintained? as that is what i'm working on producing and have been open that that is the case very early on (which involves a fair bit of code removal and replacement to get it feature comparable along with a lot of extra work being put in which was started in 5.64 to sort out the stability issues, feature requests and performance complaints e.g. i've gone from ~3-4 seconds to ~200ms to shutdown on my current development test install under safe mode using a classic skin).

i can see where the possible ambiguity in the video would cause the viewpoint stated (which is from a while back and there was and still is planning to be done), but i didn't get any reference to one client type more than another - since Winamp is multi-platform as such anyway and all that is referred to is just Winamp, and especially not that the desktop is being dropped (so legacy plug-ins should still work unless it really impacts on required improvements to the workings of the desktop client).

either way, as Alexandre has publically stated it, the end of the year is the aim for the new desktop client to be released and it will be as feature compatible with 5.x as possible along with hopefully appreciated new features to keep the desktop client more relevant in the world of streaming when it is released as a 6.x client.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 19:00   #8
pbelkner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 405
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
the end of the year is the aim for the new desktop client to be released and it will be as feature compatible with 5.x as possible along with hopefully appreciated new features to keep the desktop client more relevant in the world of streaming when it is released as a 6.x client.
pbelkner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 21:51   #9
Koopa
16-Bit Moderator
 
Koopa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinktink View Post
What I got from this video is they're going to dump Winamp 5, make a completely new "media player" from scratch that only works on non-desktop compatible mobile devices, and then slap the Nullsoft Winamp brand sticker on it ultimately screwing over Windows desktop users.

There is nothing in this video to indicate that they will continue development on the Windows desktop client.

At this point, I would still have preferred Microsoft bought Winamp/SHOUTcast. It couldn't have been any worse than this.

If my analysis is not true then Radionomy needs a MUCH better PR department.


It's just too early, nothing more than speculations only.

Seeing DrO working on the Windows version is a good sign, I couldn't think of anyone else, who has the knowledge and the will to fine tune things like him. So I highly doubt, that they will do anything bad with the windows version.

As for Microsoft, I repeat what I said last year already, MS only wants to push their own Media Player and if they would get Winamp, they only would port some things back to their WMP. There is no room for another player. A flexible and highly customizable player just doesn't fit into their portfolio. Look what they did with Skype.
Google would be the better choice than Microsoft.

Lets just wait what the (Radionomy) future brings, anything else are rumors and speculations only.

The only point where I do agree with, is the bad communication between Radionomy and the community. But AOL wasn't very communicative in the past either.
Koopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2014, 22:08   #10
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
maybe nothing is being said since plans and things are still being sorted out and there's little point in saying something when it's not known. especially as has been seen by some posters, they don't like vagueness and want hard details but that is just not possible currently for a large number of things, hence not much being said (other than the small details i can give out, of which i'm surprised a few things haven't been jumped on, and what has been made by some of the interviews from earlier this year).

and like is mentioned in the video / article, things aren't going to be rushed (other than what had to be done to get some sort of sites up and running) and other things (including client updates) will follow in due time.


and i knew that whatever was done people weren't going to be happy with what may happen or the rate of information which comes out (even if we were tweeting things daily for example), since until the sites are fully updated and new clients are provided, no one external of the teams working on things are going to be happy and that a lot of patience is going to be needed (especially if we're aiming for client updates at the end of the year).


so do keep using the client builds available (and ensure you're using correctly patched versions as needed for the client) and just have a bit of patience and give all of us the time needed to do the work needed to make non-AOL builds which will do the Winamp name justice and allow it to keep going into the future for those who want Winamp.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 00:57   #11
ryerman
Major Dude
 
ryerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 659
"All Good Things Come To He Who Waits"

My theory is that as long as DrO and DJ Egg and the other developers are happy, then eventually I and many other users will be happy with the next version of Winamp.

Windows 10 Home, 64 bit, Winamp 5.666, Bento Skin
ryerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 01:07   #12
A11ectis
Member
 
A11ectis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 55
Ehh. As long as Winamp can still play flac files and open audio streams (duh), I can wait.
A11ectis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 03:02   #13
pbelkner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by A11ectis View Post
Ehh. As long as Winamp can still play flac files and open audio streams (duh), I can wait.
Most importantly, WA should continue maintaining it's plugin API and SDK.
pbelkner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 04:08   #14
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,601
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
I am keeping the faith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7oZnBH05s

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 05:32   #15
A11ectis
Member
 
A11ectis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbelkner View Post
Most importantly, WA should continue maintaining it's plugin API and SDK.
I always felt kinda weird about being a Winamp user and never using plugins/skins/whatever.
A11ectis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 07:09   #16
pbelkner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by A11ectis View Post
I always felt kinda weird about being a Winamp user and never using plugins/skins/whatever.
One of the greatest advantages WA has to offer is its ability for customization via plugins. That's one of the reasons why I prefer WA over other players and that's why I'm authoring plugins:
pbelkner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 09:11   #17
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbelkner View Post
....should continue maintaining it's plugin API and SDK.
that will be done though it may be necessary to enable a legacy mode to allow for some older plugins to work with the newer client.

this isn't a final aspect yet but is something being considered since there's little point in creating for example the legacy winamp.m3u file if nothing uses it (since it's only there for old plug-ins and external tools) - since not saving that has a noticeable effect on shutdown times for those working with a large main playlist.

as I'm a little bit focused (if not already noticed from other posts) on trying to make Winamp feel more like it did from the 2.x days where it didn't have a lot of legacy APIs to deal with and also to make it feel lighter than its has been seen to become e.g. loading and saving optimisations and delaying when some features are loaded to prevent 'wasting' memory and resources when not needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11ectis View Post
I always felt kinda weird about being a Winamp user and never using plugins/skins/whatever.
you're using them even if you don't realise it as we've always tried to keep Winamp moduler (despite the odd downside it produces). and its the norm for people not to use extra plug-ins or skins, either from a lack of knowledge about them or from just not having the need.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 10:21   #18
Aminifu
Forum King
 
Aminifu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
and its the norm for people not to use extra plug-ins or skins, either from a lack of knowledge about them or from just not having the need.
Or from encountering too many broken or useless ones that were still carried on the old site. Going forward something should be done about purging (archiving) and grouping according to the Winamp version they work with.

Winamp Pro v5.666.3516 fully-patched - Komodo X Touchscreen v1.0 by Victhor skin
Windows 10 Home 64-bit v1809 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system
Aminifu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 10:29   #19
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
that's probably true as well, though it all depends on what happens with the new winamp.com site (which i'm honestly not aware off what will / won't appear on it). as it'd be better to not provide any plug-ins from the old site (which seem to be archived up to the eye balls anyway) on a new site if such things do come back so that any would have to be newly submitted and verified that they will work correctly on the versions of Windows and Winamp that are supported (as too many don't play well with XP, let alone Vista and higher).

and is why there'll be other changes relating to the safe mode and trying to prevent against plug-in issue so that it's more likely to determine the plug-in causing the problem (where it is possible to) and disable it simply.
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 11:08   #20
Satuim
Senior Member
 
Satuim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinktink View Post
What I got from this video is they're going to dump Winamp 5, make a completely new "media player" from scratch that only works on non-desktop compatible mobile devices, and then slap the Nullsoft Winamp brand sticker on it ultimately screwing over Windows desktop users.

There is nothing in this video to indicate that they will continue development on the Windows desktop client.

At this point, I would still have preferred Microsoft bought Winamp/SHOUTcast. It couldn't have been any worse than this.

If my analysis is not true then Radionomy needs a MUCH better PR department.

You should not post in an alarmist tone.
We do not know anything, If I was interviewing I would have 20 minutes worth of questions everyone has been asking.
Satuim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 12:50   #21
pbelkner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
that will be done though it may be necessary to enable a legacy mode to allow for some older plugins to work with the newer client.
It's no problem at all if you're going to restructure the API. The point is to have an API at all.
pbelkner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 12:58   #22
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
most of the legacy (so the 2.x style) api will still remain (since that's needed for most legacy plug-ins), but as we'd been doing anyway, we'd gone more towards a Wasabi (Winamp3) style API instead of relying on subclassing (which introduces a mass of issues on it's own).

but to alay those fears, unless it causes quality issues or is only used internally, existing API methods will be maintained (since it's all based on 5.x which was in-turn based on 2.x).

there will likely be some further plug-in API changes (like was done between 5.64-5.66x for some of the plug-in structures - though existing compatibility will be maintained) which will reduce the things that need to be checked via a SendMessage(..) call in init(..) based on some further internal review of things in the coming months. the most that will probably break is anything which tries to load the Winamp plug-ins, but as we're going 6.x, i'm not too concerned about having to break some things to improve the overall implementation (whether that'll be liked or not is yet to be seen).
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 13:22   #23
pbelkner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 405
great

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
most of the legacy (so the 2.x style) api will still remain (since that's needed for most legacy plug-ins), but as we'd been doing anyway, we'd gone more towards a Wasabi (Winamp3) style API instead of relying on subclassing (which introduces a mass of issues on it's own).

but to alay those fears, unless it causes quality issues or is only used internally, existing API methods will be maintained (since it's all based on 5.x which was in-turn based on 2.x).

there will likely be some further plug-in API changes (like was done between 5.64-5.66x for some of the plug-in structures - though existing compatibility will be maintained) which will reduce the things that need to be checked via a SendMessage(..) call in init(..) based on some further internal review of things in the coming months. the most that will probably break is anything which tries to load the Winamp plug-ins, but as we're going 6.x, i'm not too concerned about having to break some things to improve the overall implementation (whether that'll be liked or not is yet to be seen).
pbelkner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 14:21   #24
thinktink
Forum King
 
thinktink's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: On the streets of Kings County, CA.
Posts: 3,008
Send a message via Skype™ to thinktink
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO View Post
either way, as Alexandre has publically stated it, the end of the year is the aim for the new desktop client to be released and it will be as feature compatible with 5.x as possible along with hopefully appreciated new features to keep the desktop client more relevant in the world of streaming when it is released as a 6.x client.
It's not just been this one video all by itself but it is the trigger. A lot of Radionomy's public statements and press releases that I have seen so far have been so gawd damn ambiguous and cryptic (and seemingly on purpose so as to provide plausible deniability) about the status of the desktop client that I can't think of any line or sentence with which I can grab hold of, take back to Radionomy, and say something similar to "why did you not do this when you clearly said you would." For all we know, Radionomy is just taking advantage of everyone's normalcy bias and stringing everyone along until they finish their version of "Winamp." I don't know these people. I don't trust these people. I've never even heard of them until they went after Winamp/SHOUTcast.

I really hope you're right DrO. Everything else absolutely sucks compared to Winamp (especially iTunes) and I can't find any replacement comparable to it.
thinktink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 16:52   #25
MrSinatra
Forum King
 
MrSinatra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WKPS, State College
Posts: 5,601
Send a message via AIM to MrSinatra
I am glad to see DrO's comments.

I think making a clean break with the past to move forward is a good thing. I know he said the past things will still be there, but my takeaway is that legacy considerations will no longer tie hands, and that's the main thing I wanted to see. I am also glad to see more work on safe mode, and perhaps that in turn will one day lead to winamp "profiles" and the ability to checkmark on/off each plugin in a profile (as well as set differing prefs). it would be a nice feature, (and just to be clear, I would want to be able to do it without multiple windows profiles).

I know DrO isn't big on the idea, but I also hope one day there is a "winamp store" kind of like what android had, where you get your plugins, free or paid for. the store based plugins would be all known quantities, and therefore would be known to work. the store could also force users to silently upgrade the client itself which I know is unpopular for some, but probably long overdue for the majority of users. and finally, a store would produce new revenue and encourage 3rd party plugin development.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
MrSinatra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 17:25   #26
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
I think making a clean break with the past to move forward is a good thing. I know he said the past things will still be there, but my takeaway is that legacy considerations will no longer tie hands, and that's the main thing I wanted to see.
correct, it'll be less of a concern but i'm not going to intentionally break things unless it's a must or cannot be avoided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
I am also glad to see more work on safe mode, and perhaps that in turn will one day lead to winamp "profiles" and the ability to checkmark on/off each plugin in a profile (as well as set differing prefs). it would be a nice feature, (and just to be clear, I would want to be able to do it without multiple windows profiles).
it'll probably only end up being a checkmark on/off option (at least to start with). though it depends on how i implement it as to how simple plug-in profiles would be (which would be done on per-Winamp install basis and would not tied to the Windows user account other than that being the default place to store any settings like is already the case - so you could have multiple configured installs all using the same Winamp install and just different settings folders like we already expose via the paths.ini and command-line options).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
and finally, a store would produce new revenue and encourage 3rd party plugin development.
yes it might help, but it'd most likely just promote people to quickly develop 'crap' like a lot of the stuff that ends up in the other app stores (even with vetting at what point do you draw the line?). or you end up with heavily crippled versions that people don't like (and bitch about it being Winamp's fault - as was the case with the old system) and won't pay for the full version which leads to a complete mess (especially with Winamp itself being free).

so that is two of the reasons i don't like the idea of a store (and that it's fundamentally 12 years too late when people were making money off Winamp skins which would have been the ideal time to do the same for plug-ins).

and there isn't a commercial basis for 3rd party plug-ins and you'd not see 1000s created. since everything i've seen is that those who did try to have commercial versions don't care about them anymore (or don't exist). with a prime example being DFX which won't fix the stability issues in their DSP despite it being reported often over the last year and is the top 3rd party plug-in from the crash reports i see (though it pails into insignificance compared to the Gracenote SDK crashes).
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 17:44   #27
DrO
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinktink View Post
I don't know these people. I don't trust these people. I've never even heard of them until they went after Winamp/SHOUTcast.
i've been aware off them for a few years and had heard good things before any of the sale stuff occurred. and you could say the same about the prior ownership and those who were working on it or even anyone from the original dev team or any of the other potential buyers that could have been (and all i can say is i'm thankful those didn't happen).

yes it's all an unknown and i understand people's fears, but if i wasn't happy then i would not have joined the new team and i believe that they will allow Winamp to go in the right direction and will do what they can to allow it to continue for those who want to use it (hence why i get annoyed at those who refuse to update from 2,3,4+year old versions since if people don't use the newer versions, then i and others need to look for a new job, simple enough as that as there's no point in keeping it going if people don't want it - which is what we're hoping will not be the case with the things that can now be done as a smaller European based media player since US law is a hinderence and is a cause of a lot of issues with getting a non-AOL build of Winamp available).
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinktink View Post
I really hope you're right DrO. Everything else absolutely sucks compared to Winamp (especially iTunes) and I can't find any replacement comparable to it.
you and others will just have to trust us, yes things are quiet or vague but as i've tried to explain earlier in this and other threads, Winamp went from a full (but small) dev team to effectively nothing by the end of 2013 and now people need to be brought in, plans made, licenses sorted out and so on, all of which takes time and just rushing out saying we're going to make X, Y and Z features is not realistic when it needs to be determined what X, Y and Z are going to be (or even if they're viable to do).

yes for the desktop we have some ideas, but just getting everything to the point where it's legal and replaces the parts from the AOL version which cannot be re-used is a time consuming process (hence why i'm a few weeks behind on where i'd like to have been with builds for those on the beta list since licensing and legal matters are a pain in the bum).
DrO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2014, 17:45   #28
bjjocsdradio
Member
 
bjjocsdradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Ocean City, MD
Posts: 93
Send a message via AIM to bjjocsdradio
Hoping Radionomy is successful in their future endeavours with helping the SHOUTcast/WINAMP brand. Seems like they are very optimistic.
bjjocsdradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Winamp & Shoutcast Forums > Winamp > Winamp Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump