Alternative to dsp_sc plugin

[angst]

Are there any alternatives to the dsp_sc plugin,,?
I trying the oddsock dsp plugin, and it eats up cpu, and sounds like very shity.
I need to be able to stream to 2 different servers in different bit rates useing one machine,

any idea's,,?

[IBC-Radio.com]

The Shoutcast DSP and Oddsock's DSp are you only choices. Then you have MuchFX and Stacker to double up your DSPs. I use Stacker and Oddsock's DSP's myself.

[angst]

yes use them both aswell,
but the oddsocks one sound very bad!!!
and I can't get two of the shoutcast dsp's working at the same time,

[jonus]

Have you tried the SAMcast plugin?

http://www.audiorealm.com/spacial/?page=plugins&cat=dsp

You don't need the actual SAM program cause DSP will output to SHOUTcast just using WinAmp.

I hope that helps.

[angst]

kool,
I never noticed that hey had there own dsp plugin's,
I'll give it a try, I noticed that they have a plugin for wma streaming, have you ever used it? is so does it work well?
thankz

[angst]

ok,
the SAMcast dsp plugin, is better then the oddsock dsp plugin, but still eats up alot of CPU!!!
the best idea I've come up with yet is to run winamp connected to shoutcast,
and then I open mycaster ( http://www.mycaster.com ) and stream,,
uses very low over head,, cpu is only around 20%,
and every thing runs smoothly.

but I'd still rather use just winamp with two dsp plugin's connected to two different stream,, but this is proving to be hard then I had thought.

Any other sugestions,,?

[Darkman_NS]

Hang in there a little longer. I have the perfect solution for you guys, but I have to go through the right channels before I can release it. Keep bugging Tom to let me release crap.

[ALTERadio]

Stay away from the OddCast DSP...It's the biggest load of crap I have ever worked with. Just some advice.

Spread the Lov*E*

[angst]

yes I figered that out the hardway,
it's by far the shitiest one that I've tried yet.

and the search continues

[oddsock]

Originally posted by angst
yes I figered that out the hardway,
it's by far the shitiest one that I've tried yet.

and the search continues

you guys are kidding right ?

might you mention exactly why it sounds so shitty ?
what settings were you using ? Bitrate ?

my DSP uses LAME to produce the mp3 stream, and it's pretty much very well known that LAME produces the *best* sounding MP3 stream (even over the FHG one)....

plus, my DSP will soon support Vorbis, which the SC DSP probably never will....

oddsock

[jonus]

Well, in your defense oddsock...

At one time I was having trouble with THE shittiest sound coming from both the SHOUTcast DSP and the SAMcast DSP. I look around forever and found the Oddcast DSP and was SAVED!!

I've since reloaded my machine and I'm back to just the SHOUTcast DSP, but still guys... Oddsock's plugin saved my ass for like 2 days. Until I found his plugin I was freakin out.

Note: I don't give a shit about CPU usage or anything like that, so I'm not saying it's got the lowest... just that it didn't suck and it worked when nothing else would.

[Darkman_NS]

Well, in defense of my own mp3 streamer never using Ogg Vorbis, it'll probably never use it since it's not all that great to begin with. I've already thrown together a version of dsp_sc.dll that uses the vorbis sdk. Personally, I agree with Tom... it's not worth the trouble.

Now, on the other hand, LAME has been implemented in the dsp_sc.dll and it's alright. it's a bit slower than the FhG encoder, but with a little tweaking of the code in certain areas, I got it to rival FhG's speed. It sounds almost as good as FhG's Quick-encode mode. Again, the points against it are: still slower than FhG and doesn't sound as good.... ESPECIALLY at lower bitrates.

We at Nullsoft love competition. It sparks creativity. I believe our hiatus has given us the time needed to allow for other people to join the ranks of competition. Fortunately, we've also had the time to re-engineer, review, and better what we have. You all will be pleased.

[oddsock]

Originally posted by Darkman_NS
Well, in defense of my own mp3 streamer never using Ogg Vorbis, it'll probably never use it since it's not all that great to begin with. I've already thrown together a version of dsp_sc.dll that uses the vorbis sdk. Personally, I agree with Tom... it's not worth the trouble.

well, I don't know if this is necessarily a fair statement...Vorbis is still in beta and changing every day, and until there is a Server/Client built that supports Vorbis streaming it's rather unclear as to wether or not Vorbis makes sense in a streaming fashion...Either way, my comment was not that dsp_sc couldn't do Vorbis, but rather that it *wouldn't* do Vorbis, or LAME...This is a choice on Nullsoft's part...

Now, on the other hand, LAME has been implemented in the dsp_sc.dll and it's alright. it's a bit slower than the FhG encoder, but with a little tweaking of the code in certain areas, I got it to rival FhG's speed. It sounds almost as good as FhG's Quick-encode mode. Again, the points against it are: still slower than FhG and doesn't sound as good.... ESPECIALLY at lower bitrates.

well, I'd be curious to know which version of LAME with which options were used to make the comparsassion...LAME provides you with an incredible number of options to finetune your encoding...My experience is that properly configured (LAME quality turned way down) it actually uses less CPU than the comparable FhG encoding and produces about the same quality of encoded output...This is obviously debatable, but I can do realtime 128kbps encoding on my P2-266 with LAME (quality setting of 9), and with FhG (dsp_sc.dll) I cannot do this without topping my CPU...

We at Nullsoft love competition. It sparks creativity. I believe our hiatus has given us the time needed to allow for other people to join the ranks of competition. Fortunately, we've also had the time to re-engineer, review, and better what we have. You all will be pleased.

right on...

oddsock

[Darkman_NS]

Originally posted by oddsock
well, I don't know if this is necessarily a fair statement...Vorbis is still in beta and changing every day, and until there is a Server/Client built that supports Vorbis streaming it's rather unclear as to wether or not Vorbis makes sense in a streaming fashion...Either way, my comment was not that dsp_sc couldn't do Vorbis, but rather that it *wouldn't* do Vorbis, or LAME...This is a choice on Nullsoft's part...

Well, there's not much different from shoutcast and an http server. In fact, that's essentially what it does... just allowing more audio-based options and higher client count.

well, I'd be curious to know which version of LAME with which options were used to make the comparsassion... LAME provides you with an incredible number of options to finetune your encoding...My experience is that properly configured (LAME quality turned way down) it actually uses less CPU than the comparable FhG encoding and produces about the same quality of encoded output...This is obviously debatable, but I can do realtime 128kbps encoding on my P2-266 with LAME (quality setting of 9), and with FhG (dsp_sc.dll) I cannot do this without topping my CPU...

LAME 3.70, I think. I grabbed every version from latest (3.87, I think) down until I found the fastest, most stable release. I modified the cosign transforms a bit, fixed the data pumps a LOT, and moved some stuff into some state machines so that they worked a bit more smoothely. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad. It's just not as good as what FhG has. And I try to stay as unbiased as possible when it comes to codecs. Oh, sure, I'll agree, the current dsp_sc.dll that's out there (which uses ACM) sucks ass. It's not the codec's fault, either, it's Microsoft's ACM layer that is entirely too unrefined and slow.

And just so everyone knows I'm not a slacker, I've taken the liberty of optimizing a lot of the new streamer so that it only takes a tiny fraction of the processor while touting hundreds of new features.

I'm going in to work today so I can flail my arms around wildly as I scream at Tom to let me release a version of this at least to the beta list.

[puttwill]

I have yet to get oddsock to work right either. i finally got FGH to work right, but every time i reboot, i have to reinstall the codec to get to dsp_sc's two stream. the problem is i want 3. when i add a 3rd dsp_sc it gives acm error. i can get oddsock to connect, but unless i'm directly playing a 22mz mp3, it sounds like crap. live audio is chopping, > 22mz sounds slow, < 22mz sounds fast. so basically it's usless to me. this happens no mater what bit rate i'm set too.

i'm also tried the sam dsp. works fine when it's by it's self, but if i add it to the stacker it locks up linerec:// and brings the whole cast down.

[ALTERadio]

For our stations we just use the ShoutCast DSP...It seems to be by far the most stable DSP....May not be the most CPU friendly, but it is really stable...We can go months without a reboot or a crash...OddSock crashed my system in about 2 seconds flat...So for us, we use and will continue to use the ShoutCast DSP...

Spread the Lov*E*

[oddsock]

Originally posted by puttwill
I have yet to get oddsock to work right either. i finally got FGH to work right, but every time i reboot, i have to reinstall the codec to get to dsp_sc's two stream. the problem is i want 3. when i add a 3rd dsp_sc it gives acm error. i can get oddsock to connect, but unless i'm directly playing a 22mz mp3, it sounds like crap. live audio is chopping, > 22mz sounds slow, < 22mz sounds fast. so basically it's usless to me. this happens no mater what bit rate i'm set too.

i'm also tried the sam dsp. works fine when it's by it's self, but if i add it to the stacker it locks up linerec:// and brings the whole cast down.

The slow "Barry White"/"Chimpmunk" effect that you are seeing is almost *always* caused by using an older version of Winamp versions. Pre 2.7 were using an old encoder which had strange effects on the DSP (well, my DSP at least)...also, what is the platform ? I know that win98/NT/2000 are all supported, although for the life of me I can't bring myself to install 95 again on anything...

oddsock

[ALTERadio]

Hey oddsock,

My platform is Winamp 2.72 with Shoutcast 1.80 and the 1.80DSP and WinME, 98, 98SE, 2000, NT4WS, NT4 Server...So for me, I don't understand what the problem is or where it is happening. I have attempted rebuilds of machines and different DJ programs, but all to no avail...Very frustrating, but I'm sure with your knowledge, you'll figure it out...Let me know!

Spread the Lov*E*

[puttwill]

i upgraded to 2.72 and 1.8.0 and have win 98. it still sounds choppy using linerec://

[angst]

Well,
I've used every compatable dsp plug for connecting to a shoutcast server, and the odd sock one is the most
un-useable.
I set it at the same bit rate as the shoutcast dsp plug in and it sounds atleast 10 times worse,,
it doesn't matter how much cpu or ram that the computer has, it just sounds like shit,,
thats all I can say about it, the shoutcast dsp_sc is by far the best, and the sam dsp is second, if there were more I'd have to rate the oddsock's dsp some where are the very end. keep up the good work right.

any way, back to the subject, are there any other alternatives to these?

[Darkman_NS]

I set it at the same bit rate as the shoutcast dsp plug in and it sounds atleast 10 times worse,,

I hate to say it again, but the LAME encoder (which I hear oddsock uses) at lower bitrates (under 96kbit/s) just does not compare to the Fraunhoffer MP3 encoder.

Now, don't get me wrong about it. I'll still use the LAME encoder, since it's the only version I can think of where the source code to it is readilly available to me to tinker with. Plus, with the settings in the right places, it can sound at least twice as good as what FhG provides at higher bitrates.

It's an alternative. Not a direct alternative, but one nonetheless. That encoder was designed with higher bitrates in mind, anyhow, unlike FhG's which was designed to be a reference model and is supposed to be at least average in all modes.

[angst]

well,, then where can I download it,,?