new mod needed

[chiquita chad]

has anyone else noticed that hawk606 has posted in here 2 times in the last 2 months?
its not like he's on vacation, he's still posting in other forums (too good for skin love)...
and while hawk606 is posting elsewhere we have a Member who would be perfect for the job of Moderator... Mr Jones
we really dont need people like hawk who never helps out newbies or post for that matter. what we need is more people who resemble Jayn. Jayn is constantly posting help, not spam/garbage. I'm getting tired of Skin Love being a one man, errrrrmmm woman, show. I also thought cappy17 would be a good Moderator considering his extremely helpful bug reports. But I's still like to see Mr Jones' name at the top of the screen underneath the "Moderated by..."
If enough people support me... I'll send a request to watadoo, or just have Jayn do it (if it's in her heart)

-keetah

[Duk]

Heh heh heh ... that's the way to slow him down, keeah! Yup! Add my name to the petition for Jones. This may give us all a chance to catch up to him in the skin totals.

Um, too, the other moderators (Jayn of course being the exception) only seem to 'come down from on high' to post. Almost as if they are inconvenienced by us, keetah ... OR (more likely) just too damn good for us. Yes too special and knowledgable and way too intelligent & worldly ::cough cough:: to chat with common folk like us.

[chiquita chad]

not exactly the point of the petition but YAY

[pixelpusher]

I broswe the other forums and it seems like skin love is the only one that moderates itself. The troublemakers are normally taken care of from within. But I do think skin love could use a more active mod like jayn.

Xerxes is a mod and he's in here quite a bit.

I won't split loyalities. I think MJ and Cappy are both good choices for the job. I think it depends on which of them would care to have the responibilities.

I like the way BullGawd handles himself to. He can go off half cocked at times. But the boy has a way with words.
He would be my third choice.

[Mr Jones]

Wow I'm flattered.

I've talked about the moderation issues before, out of the 5 names listed up there, jayn and then xerxes are the only ones who seem to be in here on any sort of regular basis, , don't recall seeing hawk or jaz post in here for what seems like forever, and Mike is only round once in a while. Is it because we moderate ourselves better as PP said up there ?, or is it because the self same mods are off moderating other forums as well?, are we spreading the mods to thin on the ground maybe?.

For what it's worth, if you want me to do it, I'll glady do it, just ask the right people CC and see what happens.

As I say, I'm flattered you would even start this thread in the first place

[skinme!]

Yeah.... Mr Jones for president....

No seriously, I think Mr Jones would make a great mod. He is always around to help and start interesting threads. And I love his skins.

[simon snowflake]

No comments.....

a well one then. As said before this forum will Moderate it self. but if you have moderators, please let them be here once in a while, or better almost constantly.

but you can't just demand from people to stay here if they lost there interest. Everybody has times that their interests change. Well mine do.

[ElChevelle]

Well, I guess us moderators forget that it is our job to hold everyone's hands and lead them through the forums safely. I also forgot that moderators=tech support personnel. I need to go back and read my employment contract with Nullsoft, cause I also forgot that moderators are appointed by their fan clubs rather than administration.

Wait a minute,.................my memory is fine!
I didn't forget those things, they were never there

Originally posted by chiquita chad
has anyone else noticed that hawk606 has posted in here 2 times in the last 2 months?
its not like he's on vacation, he's still posting in other forums (too good for skin love)...

It sounds more like you have personal issues with hawk. What do you define as posting enough here. One, two posts per thread?

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by Mr Jones
....don't recall seeing hawk or jaz post in here for what seems like forever, and Mike is only round once in a while. Is it because we moderate ourselves better as PP said up there ?, or is it because the self same mods are off moderating other forums as well?, are we spreading the mods to thin on the ground maybe?.

I don't know about hawk, but Jaz has had a major computer malfunction and THEMike is on assignment(some of us do have real life jobs)
Don't fret, you are being watched over and moderated. Would you like more moderation? It can be arranged.
Oh, by the way. Moderators have equal power and rights over ALL forums now. They are designated for their qualities and for format use only. If I were to deem a thread in here worthy of deletion or pruning, I have that power. We all do but as stated, this forum is one of the best behaved of Winamp's.

[simon snowflake]

Originally posted by ElChevelle
.....If I were to deem a thread in here worthy of deletion or pruning, I have that power. We all do but as stated, this forum is one of the best behaved of Winamp's.

That might be because this is a share your feeling forum?

[chiquita chad]

once again ElChevelle shows his extreme dislike for me and anything i have to say

[chiquita chad]

plus im not saying that Mr Jones or any mod has to help out with tech support for newbies... all members take care of that in here, but when some critical issue comes about we only have one person to look to, Jayn. Jayn and Mr Jones alone are currently trying to get the skin portion of winamp.com straightened out... i dont see jaz or hawk doing that... whatever the hell i did to you chev, you need to drop it, i'm not the dumbass you make me to seem

[ElChevelle]

You take everything to offense, huh? I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
Chad, I made my opinions known on this subject and merely tried to clarify current mod/forum relations. It appeared to me that someone needed to make a statement on behalf of mods. Is that wrong?

[simon snowflake]

YES!! YES!! YES!!
.....actually no, it's not bad to say that ElChevelle

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by chiquita chad
Jayn and Mr Jones alone are currently trying to get the skin portion of winamp.com straightened out... i dont see jaz or hawk doing that... whatever the hell i did to you chev, you need to drop it, i'm not the dumbass you make me to seem

If more help is needed, I'd be more than happy to help if Mr. Jones and Jayn can't get it done. As a matter of fact, I can call out the entire mod squad for help.
Chad, if I can't state an opinion without you getting all teary eyed, you need to see a doctor. It wouldn't matter who raised the subject, the same would be stated by me. you just have this paranoia issue that I'm out to get you. Mack the Knife, I'm not. Though, I do know his cousin

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by simon snowflake
YES!! YES!! YES!!
.....actually no, it's not bad to say that ElChevelle

[Duk]

Originally posted by chiquita chad
Jayn and Mr Jones alone are currently trying to get the skin portion of winamp.com straightened out...

:cough:

[Mr Jones]

Yes, Duk is correct there, and my bad for not correcting that faux pas sooner, It's not just Jayn and myself looking to change the review system, even tho I posted up the list etc etc, I had a great deal of help from both Duk and Cappy, so please thank them as well for there contributions, it wouldn't have come out like it did without input from my brothers

[pixelpusher]

Originally posted by ElChevelle
cause I also forgot that moderators are appointed by their fan clubs rather than administration.

In Chads defence, "Me needs to go look over in GD for a minute". I've seen tons of posts over in GD like this and have never seen someone get ripped as bad.

I think you've proved your point El. But it is true that alot of times "it seems" when skin love needs to be in contact with admin. Jayn is the only one around. And I put it seems in "quotes"

This is the best forum there is, as far as having trouble. So we don't need any enforcer type mods. But it would be nice to have another liasion sometimes. I think thats what Chad was trying to say.

About the review thing. Way to go group

[Ice]

word from watadoo says we aren't looking for new moderators at this time. btw, all moderators moderate skin love.

[pixelpusher]

Originally posted by Ice
word from watadoo says we aren't looking for new moderators at this time.

Word from the power.

Originally posted by Ice
btw, all moderators moderate skin love.

Cause this is the coolest place to be

[simon snowflake]

Originally posted by Ice

Cause this is the coolest place to be

that is a fact

[skinme!]

Originally posted by pixelpusher
Cause this is the coolest place to be

No, I think this is the coolest place to be. http://www.ice.kewlio.net

[ampburner]

Note 1

Originally posted by Ice
btw, all moderators moderate skin love.

are they? It doesn't seem to me that they are (could be just me though.) Perhaps their moderation of skinlove isn't as obtrusive as in GenDisc, because skinlove is kind of self-moderating,...so skinlove doesn't really need to be actively moderated. I realise that ALL mods have the authority to view IP's, lock threads etc in here, but that is not the type of moderator we're asking for.

I think what the skinlove regulars really want is, like chad mentioned, another moderator that can get in direct touch with admin, help out with techsupport etc...instead of someone to knock punkass newbies down (leave that part to us ::evilgrin:: ) ie 'law enforcement'

Note 2

Originally posted by ElChevelle
It sounds more like you have personal issues with hawk. What do you define as posting enough here. One, two posts per thread?

I think chad DID have a point there chev... coz I haven't seen hawk posting in here in a long, long time (jaz neither btw)

Note 3
Congratz with the 1000+, J ...here, have a vodka on me

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by ampburner
I think chad DID have a point there chev... coz I haven't seen hawk posting in here in a long, long time (jaz neither btw)

So, none of the other mods matter? You would have to post weekly, monthly, daily, hourly to be there? For security? I don't understand why you feel so distant from moderation. Are you so in need of support, you feel lost without constant moderator presence? I would think that you would feel good that moderators have had the least presence here than any other forum. Or is there just some ass kissing going on here, saying you want so and so for a mod?

[ElChevelle]

If you want to be mod, speak up!

[chiquita chad]

if you cant appreciate our opinions El, just lock the damn thread

[Jayn]

Originally posted by chiquita chad
I'm getting tired of Skin Love being a one man, errrrrmmm woman, show.

If you're getting tired of me....then maybe now would be a good time for me to leave.....

*lookin' for Chev's shoulder to cry on*...

[pixelpusher]

Jayn nobody in this group could ever in this world, be tired of your beautiful soul and creative spirit in this forum. Including Chad.

I think this thread has gone far enough.

Just thought I had to say something. We can't have Jayn running around with bad feeling now can we? I still say..

This is the collest place to be

[Xerxes]

Originally posted ...
I'm getting tired of Skin Love being a one man, errrrrmmm woman, show.

But I do think skin love could use a more active mod like jayn.

Hey, I resent that :-/ I'm even a little hurt.
Is it the general opinion that i'm ineffective? I read each
and every post.

If anyone would like, I will post a "Xerxes Approved" message on every thread from now on I hope you people don't think I am not here much- the truth is I'm here daily and rarely miss a day.

I can get in touch with admins- thing is, I rarely have a reason- and if I do, it's already been arranged to be taken care of. If anyone has any requests or messages they
would like to be communicated to higher powers, i'm
very capable, and have done so before for people.

In defense of Hawk606- he has posted backstage that he responds to hordes of tech support e-mails- his presence
on the boards is subtle; as it lessens the amount of tech
questions we get in here.

Elchevelle: What is everyone's beef with you, man?

[Edited by Xerxes on 05-14-2001 at 02:17 AM]

[THEMike]

Ok first off, sorry I've not been posting much anywhere in a while. From January till September, my company has me on assignment to a client onsite, this means my many slack hours are gone as I have to set a good example. Due to the state of the IT industry with the .com crash, and the fact I am in an internet consultancy as my day job, we have to take this crappy assignments to pay the bills. My company just got hit with some redundancies. Sadly one of the people who got taken out was one of my friends I got a job here. Meanwhile, I got promoted

It's hard for me to take time evenings and weekends to check/post the forums as along with my day job, I also code the site for SnakeNetMetalRadio, have FuckingBrit on the go, had to move skinmaster's web hosting, and have a new release on the way out, and support to do for my shoutcASP project.

Which leads little time for winamp.com forums. It's a shame.

Lately I've been trying harder, I've been checking SHOUTcast, NSIS and Skin Love for the last week or two. My interest is more in the SHOUTcast stuff right now due to the shoutcASP project. And I use NSIS as the installer and am working on a support site for that too! NSIS Support site

I think I've taken on too much!

There is one thing people, especially the moderators seem to forget. What is moderation?

A moderators job as far as I am concerned is to keep the forums on track and deal with problems, not provide tech support. Now skin love rarely has problems, neither does NSIS, SHOUTcast has them slightly more often, and that is the only time a moderator needs to act. Moderators were choses as they had showed a lot of knowledge and posted a lot of answers, but they weren't chosen to keep posting answers.

Sure there are people here who post more answers than any given moderator, but that isn't the criteria for modhood. We have sufficient mods, tho a fair few are finding regularly checking the forums hard at the moment.

If you need to shout at a mod, for some reason there is trouble in here, you can email me. I can at least check my email daily at home, and also check it 3/4 times a day while at work so if there is a problem, and you need to get an alert thro to admin, mail me instead of posting.

mike@skinmaster.co.uk

But I will ignore all tech support requests as I am lazy....

[ampburner]

Originally posted by ElChevelle

So, none of the other mods matter? You would have to post weekly, monthly, daily, hourly to be there? For security? I don't understand why you feel so distant from moderation. Are you so in need of support, you feel lost without constant moderator presence? I would think that you would feel good that moderators have had the least presence here than any other forum. Or is there just some ass kissing going on here, saying you want so and so for a mod?

Whoops! did I just step on your ego Chev? sjeesh...First of all, this is not just 'ass kissing'. Second: If you want to continue to act like that everytime someone disagrees with you on this subject, then I request you do us all a favor and lock the damn thread indeed... Because to me it seems you're listening, but you're not really LISTENING to what we're saying.

We are not accusing ANY moderators of doing a bad job. We're simply saying that we'd appriciate someone with 'authority' in here that is as actively part of winamp's skinning community as Jayn (who's doing a great job btw) is. Is that so hard to understand?

On another note, I think that we actually DO NOT need another moderator in here. What we need is admin responding to our outcries. For example: the revised skin-rating system: For months the people of skin love have been asking for a panel-based reviewing system. What do we get? A public review system. Like noone even bothered to listen to us.
Now if you take a look at gen disc, you see that, as opposed to skin love, it is a community that IS listend to. There are threads that are being taken into account by nullsoft. For example Justin sometimes posts in there whenever a new version of winamp is released.

The general consensus in skin love is that we're the 'outcasts' of the winamp.com forums. An artist 'clique' that's isolated, and that not to many people (apart from the regulars) care about. That is the real problem. At least, according to me it is.

• <note_to_self>
  Do not piss off moderators. It's not a good way to make friends
  </note_to_self>

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by Jayn
*lookin' for Chev's shoulder to cry on*...

E-mail me, babe.
I'm always here for you.

Originally posted by Xerxes
Elchevelle: What is everyone's beef with you, man?

I'm not allowed in skin's? nor to speak my mind, I guess.

[ampburner]

[accidental post]

[ampburner]

Originally posted by ElChevelle

I'm not allowed in skin's? nor to speak my mind, I guess.
[/B]

Of course you are. I'm just disagreeing with you on the topic sbject. What's the matter chev? Don't want to argue anymore?

You know it makes me sad to see that a thread like this has attracted more attention from mods than all of the skin reviewing outcries combined. Makes you wonder what some mods are for....their own benefit I guess. ( Of course there are a lot exceptions, so no offence to Jayn, you know I love you )

note:this post may seem harsh, well actually it is. But it did draw your attention didn't it?

[THEMike]

Originally posted by ampburner
Because to me it seems you're listening, but you're not really LISTENING to what we're saying.

Thank you Opera, or Rikki Lake or whoever

We are not accusing ANY moderators of doing a bad job.

Ah the age old instinct of self-preservation!

What we need is admin responding to our outcries. For example: the revised skin-rating system: For months the people of skin love have been asking for a panel-based reviewing system. What do we get? A public review system. Like noone even bothered to listen to us.
Now if you take a look at gen disc, you see that, as opposed to skin love, it is a community that IS listend to. There are threads that are being taken into account by nullsoft. For example Justin sometimes posts in there whenever a new version of winamp is released.

Ok what you got is what Steve and the web crew thought was asked for looking at the old threads on the subject there were various suggestions. Nullsoft cherrypicked what they liked and could do in a reasonable timescale/effort balance and it's better than what we had but not what the community wanted exactly.

Do the other forums get more shit? NSIS gets Justin's notice right now. AS it says on the NSIS site he will focus on one thing for a while and really go ape about it. Then he'll forget NSIS for ages, ignore the forum and the users until he gets enthused about it again. I know how he feels as a developer. SHOUTcast never gets posts from any of the SHOUTcast dev team, or anyone in Nullsoft. It just runs along. Plugins? Techsupport? rarely.

Gen is an interesting place to drop into if you are bored at work and want a distraction, so NS may drop in, and respond to something particularly interesting one day. Big deal.

Skins not listened to? Damn! Skins are What Made WinAMP Great, and NullSoft knows that. Hell WinAMP 3's skin engine is way more shiney than my greatest dreams. I just can't be bothered to skin it

The general consensus in skin love is that we're the 'outcasts' of the winamp.com forums. An artist 'clique' that's isolated, and that not to many people (apart from the regulars) care about. That is the real problem. At least, according to me it is.

I don't think so at all. I think you are listend to as much as any other community here. It's a case of when one of the Dev team gains some interest in an area they pop in for a while. What does the community want? Write me a wish list and I'll pass it on.

But the thing you guys perceive is not the way it is.

Justin
Nullsoft
Moderators
Users

Is the power tree as you see it. Only you percive a line.

Justin
Nullsoft
Mods
---------
Users

I'm afraid it's more like:

Justin
Nullsoft
--------
Mods + Users

We have power over you (mwahaha) and we have Watadoo who's job is to listen to us. So theoretically shit goes from you to us to watadoo to Nullsoft and gets done.

But even Watadoo can't get much done, stuff related to the forums yeah sure no problem. He says it can be hard to get NS to pay any attention at all to anything outside his direct sphere of influence (the community).

Want an example? Fine. I wrote the skins tut on winamp.com for my site. NS asked to use it I said sure link me. They didn't. Then they finally added the skin tools links to the damn NSDN site, but linked to my wego site (skinmaster.wego.com) I've been trying to get the link changed ever since. (it is still wrong!!)

You could have one of us mods in here tell bill 4 times a day that this that and the other is what the community wants/needs and he could try and tell Nullsoft what we said, but all that would do is piss the people who are being pestered off completely.

It's a shame but for now that's the way it is.

ANYWAY, write me this list of what's wanted and I'll scream in the right place again.

Mike

[THEMike]

Originally posted by ampburner
You know it makes me sad to see that a thread like this has attracted more attention from mods than all of the skin reviewing outcries combined.

It's cos it was noticed, a problem was detected and the alarm set of backstage that more attention was needed here.

The mod posts here I guess attempt to be an assesment of what the problem is and an attempt to find out what we need to do.

Makes you wonder what some mods are for....their own benefit I guess.

Well keeping the level of enthusiasm, posting, interest, and helpfulness that got us Modded for a long period of time (when posted out of the office as well!) Is very hard. Some of us are just phased. People who focus in Gen take a lot of shit and have to deal with a lot of crap. So places that more or less run themselves get rewarded with being allowed to run themselves.

According to my user guide:

From THEMike - A Users Guide
...THEMike is designed for world domination and acts of great evil and should not be used for any other purpose.

Use of THEMike for any purposes that could be described as "kind", "good" or in any way benificial to anyone other than THEMike may result in unwanted side effects and invalidates your warranty...

( Of course there are a lot exceptions, so no offence to Jayn, you know I love you )

Does no-one realise that Jayn is really the most evil being ever? Nope? Oh well.

[ampburner]

A whole lot to respond to but here goes.

Originally posted by THEMikeWant an example? Fine. I wrote the skins tut on winamp.com for my site. NS asked to use it I said sure link me. They didn't. Then they finally added the skin tools links to the damn NSDN site, but linked to my wego site (skinmaster.wego.com) I've been trying to get the link changed ever since. (it is still wrong!!)
.........It's a shame but for now that's the way it is.

Well, then at least we agree on that.

Originally posted by THEMike

It's cos it was noticed, a problem was detected and the alarm set of backstage that more attention was needed here.

Pff...Fact is that moderators are rarely active in skin love. then keetah suggested appointing an extra mod an BAM! Mod activity goes skyhigh. It seems seems to me mod's reacted rather anxiously...I would say it seems like some mods were trying to 'defend their positions', but I trust what you're saying is true, that you're just trying to 'help' etc.

Originally posted by THEMikeOk what you got is what Steve and the web crew thought was asked for looking at the old threads on the subject there were various suggestions. Nullsoft cherrypicked what they liked and could do in a reasonable timescale/effort balance and it's better than what we had but not what the community wanted exactly.

better than what we had? but not what we wanted? More like not AT ALL what we wanted. I haven't seen Steve or any of the web crew in here asking for our opinons. They just replaced the old system with a new one, without asking us what our suggestions were. They might have read some threads but apparently didn't read them that WELL. Because most people in here always voted for a panelbased form of reviewing. And if our demands didn't fit into 'a reasonable timescale/effort balance'? then why were they executed? I'd rather have the old system than a half-assed version of what skinlove-regulars suggested.

[Jayn]

Originally posted by ampburner
Fact is that moderators are rarely active in skin love.

You have no idea how much that hurts.

[THEMike]

Originally posted by ampburner

Pff...Fact is that moderators are rarely active in skin love. then keetah suggested appointing an extra mod an BAM! Mod activity goes skyhigh. It seems seems to me mod's reacted rather anxiously...I would say it seems like some mods were trying to 'defend their positions', but I trust what you're saying is true, that you're just trying to 'help' etc.

I think that your theory activity went high was cos someone said we needed another mod because they want to defend their positions is wrong. I think it went sky high because people thought oh dear skin love isn't happy lets sort it out. At least I like to think that. But hell I'm way out of touch, I don't check anything.

better than what we had? but not what we wanted? More like not AT ALL what we wanted. I haven't seen Steve or any of the web crew in here asking for our opinons. They just replaced the old system with a new one, without asking us what our suggestions were. They might have read some threads but apparently didn't read them that WELL. Because most people in here always voted for a panelbased form of reviewing. And if our demands didn't fit into 'a reasonable timescale/effort balance'? then why were they executed? I'd rather have the old system than a half-assed version of what skinlove-regulars suggested.

I seem to remember some kind of offical say here what you want to see change thread, possibly started by Steve. I think they read it digested it and sifted out what they thought were good ideas and what was wanted or needed and fitted in with their visions of what the site should be and what a workable solution was. Maybe they thought a panel system wasn't practical from a coding/maintenance/running point of view.

I seem to remember them asking. And I can understand why they did what they did. They may see the current solution as better. And the ideal (From the SLR point of view) solution as too un-maintainable/workable, too long to build. Perhaps it's a compromise?

Shit I don't know.

Bottom line is I don't think this forum is as ignored and unvalued as you do. I think that on the whole nullsoft ignore the community (not just SL) a little too much, but I can appreciate why. (too busy, too many people pulling in too many different directions). Other sections are just as ignored. Or more so. No-one listens to any of the technical problems with SHOUTcast that are a bit more serious than not having the most ideal skin gallery. (some serious bugs.)

If you do feel that there is anything the admins need to be aware of, Jayn is in here a lot, and others check the threads now and then and pass in what we think NS will listen to and what needs listening to. If there is something urgent I am sure some of the Senior Members/Major Dudes have some of us Mod's email addresses and can raise it like that. I'm always available as a panic button.

Anyway. Lets forget arguing over this issue. You think you need more attention from NullSoft, via a Moderator. Perhaps you will have it for some time until Moderator Apathy sets in some more. While you have our attention, what are the pressing issues? Ok panel based skin reviews, and killing the little shit who votes down every 5* skin. Anything else? Give me the info and I'll pass it on.