BULLSHIT REVIEWS

[garetjax]

OMG I am so sick of this
I just uploaded a skin of mine & of course did a review of it myself. And being that I made it I gave my own skin a 5. How could I not???

Anyways...It hasn't finalized in the upload process (been reviewed & someone came by ((through virtue of the address I gave for others to find it))

Now guess what take a look at the idiot that posted a review:

http://www.winamp.com/components/det...ponentId=62596


I'm sick of this bullshit...Reviews with merit are well received but, this idiocy is enough for me...

Thanks...Guys for all the love I believe that I will be deleting all my skins from the database...I can't stand this b/s anymore. Maybe I will just make skins for sonique. Winamp.com doesn't do a damn thing about this and I've sat through hundreds of bullshit remarks on Slick Series that I just can't allow stupidity to make me so damned pissed.

To the Other Skinners:
Thanks alot for the time an effort you have all given me.

To the idiot Reviewers:
GO @#$% Yourself!

To the winamp.com Staff:
I understand the level and intent for which you have to deal with on a daily basis but, its high time to figure out how to fix this ignorance. I put alot of effort into my skins and such as they die within a few moments of release because, of idiots that review on no basis other than to remove them from the ability of placing high score. This is a horrible way to do a ranking system.
Notice: 1001 Winamp Skins or whatever there name is...they have very limited selection and this is because, of that ranking/rating system by itself. I believe that many of your skinners that used to throw up quality skins continuosly have decidedly left because, they are sick and tired of finding that someone rated their skin 0 Stars and said something like don't review your own skins. Or the like. Sorry for the rant but, I just cannot forsee dealing with this anymore.

[chiquita chad]

thats not exactly the way i would go but do what you want kiddo

[garetjax]

What the hell do I do? Walk on water while pissing in the wind. Nothing else seems to work anyways.

Forgive me: I'm just pissed and sick of this.

[Mr Jones]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, when I first started in forum land some 10 months ago, all the talk was of the "shit review" system and how "public reviews" were the way forward, just like at skinz.org or some other such place, now it's here we all want controlled reviews back.

Problem here is not the public reviews as such, the idea is sound, altho panels is better , no the problem would appear to be the ammount of "visitor traffic" this site gets hit with per day, I mean it is just freaky to think, example, my total download count on 1001 is around 20,000, on here for the same number of skins it's about 1,500,000 a massive jump you will agree.

So the bigger the population downloading , the more crap you are gonna attract, it's human nature to piss on something you don't like, the fact that it's someone else pissing on your hard work annoys you even more, I know it does me.

When your team is playing, do you boo the opposition, do you call there players a bunch of skirt wearing queers?, similar principal, always bring down what you don't like.

What can you do?, dunno, yanking your stuff?, what will that bring you?, if you host on your own site, who are you hosting for?, do you want your work out to the big world, or the smaller world?, you takes your choices, even the worst of the worst on winamp, gets a good look see at some point.

[garetjax]

I know, I just figure there to be something amiss here. I feel so questionable about the whole concept. While I love giving and making skins for people (and lets face the more downloads / comments the merrier I'll be), it is hard enough to face the facts with reviews that already tell you how much you missed. But, dealing with a rating as completly devoid of anything constructive as well is alot harder to deal with because, you think you pissed on someone's cheerios. And your right building a site to host my skins obviously isn't the answer either. It would do me know good considering I'd have to put my skins here and link back there...etc etc.

But, I do know that someone does have to change perhaps a muliple rating system like:

Peer Rating - (Other Skinners)
Winamp.Com Rating - (Minimum Rating)
Consumer Rating - (Those that download)


Consumer Rating = 30%
Panel Rating = 40%
Peer Rating = 30%%

or just instituting am minimum rating possible which equates to the Inital Winamp.com Rating.

[chiquita chad]

i think we should get rid of ratings all together... just have a large list of the skins, sort them by author... instead of rating the skins... rate the author... like Raj would get a 5 star rating so people would want to look at his skins... give the skinner crap a 1 star author rating

[just realized thats a dumb idea]

[Namelessv1]

Thats a pretty good concept, Keetah. The only thing is, the lone gunmen would start aimin for the great/good skinners and tear them down completely. When all people are allowed to give ratings, theres bound 2 be some crap.

I suggest, y not only let skinners with a certain amount of credibilty give out the ratings. Like expanding the reviewers.

[Jayn]

garetjax...I know how you feel....hopefully the Review Panel will be coming together soon, and idiotic remarks like the one from 'ahmad' can just be deleted. They serve no purpose and have absolutely nothing to do with the skin. Nothing gets me boiling faster than seeing some stupid unrelated comment posted on someone's long, hard hours of work. Please don't pull your skins....be patient and give the review panel a chance...it can't be too much longer til it starts.

[Wildrose-Wally]

Did you say review panel? Is it coming?

[ampburner]

::sigh::

So the bigger the population downloading , the more crap you are gonna attract

Which is why a public system at winamp.com is not a good Idea... As for the panel system... 'it's coming', well it been 'coming' for a long time. So wake me when it gets here...

We all feel your pain jax...look at this quality review for example

julie ingram gave it
lameo posted on May 18, 2001 @ 20:47 PM
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, very boring and stupid. this sucks, but its easy to use!

Yes public reviews suck, but what can you do about it. I say just ignore those reviews because star ratings don't mean shit. As for pulling your skins from the archive, think about it this way : If only one person downloads and enjoys your work, doesn't that make it worth it? Deleting your skins will only make winamp.com/skins a worse place.

[bobo]

tell me where the winamp.com staff lives and i'll go there and eat their pets if they don't do what we wan't.

[Mr Jones]

Originally posted by bobo
tell me where the winamp.com staff lives and i'll go there and eat their pets if they don't do what we wan't.

And that will achieve what exactly, apart from making you very ill?

[Nini]

So we are exactly there where we've been: star rating is crap (of course: only download number is decisive) and reviews not referring to the skin, too.
But consider the fact that: in the time when there was no possibility to give reviews you wanted painfully to know what the other users think of it ... And yes, it's only human to post such nasty reviews ... just ignore it for the moment

[garetjax]

I love having comments about my skin this isn't the problem that I have with the system at all. The problem is that if one zero from a retarded/ignorant person is submitted it counts for alot more than just a few moments. I mean people will see the rating more than the stupid comment they put and will automatically move on. I even do that, so the time and effort spent on a skin is wasted on some idiot.

Everyone keeps saying there is bound to be crap after thousands of submission but, who said it had to account for the rating for which my skin revolves around. Sure, say what you want about the Art. But, just because I do not like orange doesn't mean that skin is crap does it? It means I don't like orange and that is that. So, what value does my rating it 0 stars really have to do with how the skin was designed? I'll tell you how much absolutely nothing. A rating system by users is good but, to what extent? Rating via downloads may be a measure of how many people like a skin but, it doesn't measure the new ones that are submitted.

A peer panel would be ok if it were impartial, however peer panels tend to lean eventually to the crowd that is popular or etc.

So what? Ratings are somewhat a necessity however how can an impartial rating system be achieved that merits what has or hasn't been done right.

This is what I see as a good rating system :

A Selectable Drop-Down Questionarre.

Are all Components Complete?
Are the Components easy to use?
Does the images of the components blend correctly?
Is the skin Unique or does it borrow from other skins?
Are the components blotchy or low resolution?

I would also suggest a minimum review which would be the initial reviewers score.

Show both scores when the rating of the users is below the score of the Reviewer staff.


On top of this have a comments section that is not apart of the Skin Rating System.

Now, while many people can still circumvent and throw stupidity into the wheel. It will be alot less because, I can look at the review and actually make some conceptual notes on what was wrong about it.



And have the Initial Reviewers score

[Nini]

Originally posted by garetjax

Show both scores when the rating of the users is below the score of the Reviewer staff.

On top of this have a comments section that is not apart of the Skin Rating System.

You're right of course - rating systems are a problem themselves
- it's a really good idea to have 2 rating systems (staff+users) but maybe there shouldn't be a user rating at all, only comments and a possibility to sort the skins by download number

Are the Components easy to use?

I do not agree with that, I like abstract skins, because they aren't so boring, they're different - and I know Winamp "blind" - I don't need text or somethin'
I'm sure most people (me too) don't give 0 stars to skins that were hard work if you know what I mean

[ampburner]

[quote]I'm sure most people (me too) don't give 0 stars to skins that were hard work if you know what I mean

I'm sure you wouldn't, But we're not talking about people like you and me, or even about 'most people'...It only takes one idiot to bring a 5 star skin down to 4.5. And btw... most people are fucking idiots ( IMHO )

[Nini]

::sigh::
and all revieviewers are REGISTERED users, ie skinners but as I have realized...not like you and me

[garetjax]

A dual rating would at the minimum at least show the difference between what the staff had given you and what the users have given you. For the users a question based rating would literally null the great many ignorant users for the most part that rate stupidly.

It may give you more than a question mark in the comments section to go on when someone reviews your skin. And when the Staff Rating is 5 and your average user rating is 4 or whatever and you see that one user rated 0 then you get an idea that the skin is likely really kick ass.

I just think that a user rating is good when you want to know if people use it and like it.

I think a Staff rating is good when you want to know how well the skin is designed.

-Joe

[bobo]

instead of taking the average of the ratings you could take the most common one instead. this would make a single post from an idiot like ramon useless.

[ampburner]

Originally posted by Nini
::sigh::
and all revieviewers are REGISTERED users, ie skinners but as I have realized...not like you and me

::sigh:: Do I sense a misunderstanding here? Let me explain.

The fact that someone has registered does not automatically mean that they are capable skinners that are able to give their opinions with some sense of respect for other people's work. For example: Ramon IS a registered user...but he's still a pathetic, ego-centered Jackass...and I like to think that skin love forum members are respectable people...which is the oposite of people like Ramon. Hence the 'you and me'

(Or perhaps we don't have a misunderstanding, and I'm the one who's mistaken, by responding this way. In which I would be misunderstanding you, so we DO have a misunderstanding. Ha!)

[skinme!]

[flameproof shield]Personally I agree with Ahmed's comments but not his rating. I do think that giving your own skin a 5 star rating is improper. I think he should have rated the skin and commented on it and then stated his opnion about rating your own skin[/flameproof shield]

[garetjax]

Well, you can rate whatever you want however you want. As can I...by the note that this Winamp.com site is built on.

If I can give my skin a review why the hell wouldn't I. But, lets break it down a bit further in truth I just wanted to comment on my own skin...but, where do I put that in the basic comments after its been submitted? Well, I like to answer people that ask questions about them? So, I resubmit each time an update to the skin with a new comment and it waits for 3 Weeks to 3 Months on the burner ?

So, from my point of view my one count of 5 Stars forever is no problem. I can use this spot to comment and answer peoples review...Whether or not anyone agrees on my review has no bearing on the skin now does it?

Joe

[skinme!]

OK

[garetjax]

Sorry man...I guess I'm still a bit perturbed regarding these reviews. I wish something else was in place. I do like having users comment and submit information about my skins but, having them submit something as completely stupid as what has been submitted is retarded. I mean true maybe what I submitted is upsetting to him as well. However, in my defense where else do I go to answer the miriad of comments that are from users that have downloaded the skin to date? I mean wouldn't you prefer to answer them? VIA Right here? So, that many users can see you actually care what the users think and you change and update some of your designs per the comments?

I dunno...maybe I'm weird but, I thought that I should be my biggest supporter of my skins?

[Mr Jones]

I think y'all need to chill out for a minute, relax, take deep breaths and above all else...... HAVE A BEER !!



Take the rough with the smooth, it's not the end of the world after all is it?, have a beer relax

[BullGawD]

I've not posted here, since like everyone else, I don't have anything really helpful to offer, except my own sympathy and support. Personally, I'd rather you not remove your skins, since to do so would be to deprive myself, and others who might enjoy your work, of the opportunity of locating and D/Ling it. But, it's your stuff, and your decision. Regarding your wish to confront or answer the comments left by reviewers, it seems to me that the people who give 0,1 or 2 stars, with no useful comment wouldn't give a shit what you had to say.

You're right though, the guys who really comment, I'd like to communicate with, I've gotten some really helpful suggestions on a few occasions. Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

[garetjax]

Mr. Jones:

No offense but, relaxing and thinking its nothing or its not that bad is exactly that which breeds complacency. I am voicing my concern that there is a horrendous problem as I have seen a great many dedicated skinners [edited]dealing with.[/edited] Its a balance that has until recently was pretty even and now the many voices of the very people that make winamp what it is are getting really upset.

Forgive me for saying this but, if we just sit and say nothing we are worse that the people that created the problem in the first place are we not?

Brainstorming after all may find a resolution that can be lived with by all and communicating the issues makes it easier to keep using this site regardless.

BullGawd:
Well, to answer the people that are downloading the skins is hard when off the bat your total ranking is 2 or 3 stars...and it takes a hell of a lot longer to get your skin even downloaded?

[skinme!]

I agree, garetjax, there should be a way to reply to people who comment on your skin. Unfortuantely, such a feature is not available. It would be nice to have a report from a mod or somebody on what (if anything) is happening as regards to the skin section. BTW, my if anything comment, isn't a dig at Nullsoft - without their hard work they'd be nowhere for me to make that comment and nothing to make it about. I just feel that one of the main features of Winamp is it's skinning capability and that at the moment that is being neglected and abused by one-post-wonders.

Anyway, garetjax, in the mean time if replying to comments I would, if faced with this problem myself, just post a review with a rating identical to the current rating.

Just my .02

[garetjax]

I agree...but, when your skin is set to 5 Stars as the typical review? or 4.5 ? What do you rate?

5 or 4?

heh

I'm not dogging or saying NullSoft is wrong but, I am saying that they have made this site to support their skins which is what makes winamp the program it is.

So, if its an extension of the application shouldn't it be well created to the needs of those that are making the application what it is?

[ampburner]

I've noticed that some people who've posted in this thread are relatively new to skin love.

No offense but, relaxing and thinking its nothing or its not that bad is exactly that which breeds complacency

Please correct me if I'm wrong,but I think the reason MJ was trying to cool things down, and why not many senior members/Major dudes have been actively involved in this discussion for the past days is the fact that we've had this discussion a while ago (it nearly got out of hand in the 'we need a mod' thread).

Because it's been going on for a while and nothing has changed (yet?) many of us have grown a bit tired of discussing the rating system. To you this may look as complacency. But trust me, many regulars have tried hard to work together and come up with the best alternative system, especially Mister Jones.

All I can say is that, yes, the system currently sucks, but fighting over it or removing your skins from the archives will not change the situation for the better. Just have patience and trust admin when they say that they're 'working on it'.

Of course, I do encourage this discussion because I think it's important to keep pushing for change. So please continue your discussion, but keep in mind that just because some people are not actively pushing for change, doesn't mean they don't care. I hope this background info has helped you understand the situation better.

Oh and MJ...got vodka? I could use some relaxation

[Namelessv1]

Well put, Amp. Patience is the key to keeping the sanity.

[Mr Jones]

Yep hit the nail on the head there Amp, the reason I'm saying cool off a bit, is mainly 'cos this topic has been done to death.

Upshot is, nothing can be done by posturing and and harsh comments, things are in motion to change it, ideas have been submitted to the powers that be, I'm just using my new found "mod power" to trawl the archives to find the relevant thread so you might see what was sent, ideas that were culled from this community.

Ah here it is.....
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=46760

Feel free to browse that, see what was submitted, even add to it if you need to, bring it back to the top of the pile, get it some more attention.

And no I don't think it's nothing, I've been hit by my fair share of bullshit reviews, know what I've done?, given up looking, some 13 year old wants to impress his friends with his use of the word "fuk" then good luck to him.

Yep plenty of Vodka man, straight up I take it???

[ampburner]

[quote]Yep plenty of Vodka man, straight up I take it???

It's the only way

[Jayn]

Hmmmm....I find this kinda interesting...

Mr. Bojanglez (aka Ahmad Allen) has a skin in the database:
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=61914

Looks to me like he rated his own skin with 5 stars...isn't that the exact thing he was complaining about in his 'review' on garetjax' skin?

[garetjax]

I've been submitting my skins here since 1997 or 98 or something like that. I don't remember and through all these changes I believe that the most recent version of the 'Site' is wonderful. Don't get me wrong I have no apparent anger toward the developer(s) or the staff that maintain it. Although, it has been beat to death in many a forum I could not contain my frustration anymore. I have no idea what or how to vent?

You say that because, its been gone over before means that its done. I say that until its fixed its not done. Complacency is not pursuing a maleable fix. From my viewpoint whether there is no such proof to identify the fix as you propose.

I don't see the reason to Review what the problems are and why they are so annoying. We all know them. But, why is there no apparent indication to the Research of fixing the very tool that makes winamp what it is.

Sonique is out there but, people do not use it because, of its difficulty in skinning and very few people by comparison are going to that site.

Winamp whereas has been cutting edge the day it came out and has only grown more popular with the additions of thousands of beautiful skins.

But, if it were not for the skins would winamp really have succeeded as much or just fall into the pockets of the miriad of computer junkies as a kewl tool.

So, why is it so difficult to talk about the issues. I mean many a people come by in one form or another and say calm down you or calm him down etc. In many forums this is the case. I understand the need to appease some of them but, where is the definition of what is being fixed? Can I help it that proof is in the doing, not the saying?

How long do you suppose is enought time to wait?
A week, maybe a year? Althought these are probably a bit pessimistic on my part what else have we seen that really indicates a physical improvement over what has been identified as the core problems?

1 Bad Reviewer + 1 Bad Search Engine + 1 Bad Rating System + 1 Slow Publishing System = ????

[Namelessv1]

Yes, that is quite fickeled.

[garetjax]

yes, he did....

[Jayn]

ROFL...I thought that was a rather unique opportunity

[garetjax]

I made a more valiant response I guess after the crying bit. Dunno, it really didn't bother me... Just thought I should say something since he seemed so interested to recieve something from me.

How is it that someone that rapes others skins can feel comfortable asking others to rank/rate his own?

I find this an absurd idea although I was tempted for a moment to do the same. But, my thought was that it would put me on the same stool as the indescriminate. In this case Mr. Ahmad (Bojanglez) whatever...

So, in anycase its better sometimes to be forthright but, not overbearing or walk in there shoes.

(They were high-heels and they don't feel good on my feet)

[garetjax]

I can see why everyone likes you so well. Although, we got off on the wrong foot I really appreciate the link that you had found and thank you very much.



and DUSK Whomps crazy chickens...
Sweet!!!!!



A banana tastes better stuffed in a bird, covered in hot sauce.

mmmmmm