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Old 20th March 2003, 02:59   #1
Nullsoft
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Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

To our beloved developers,


we'd like to inform you of our new (or somewhat recently updated) development
plans for Winamp. It's important to note that our primary goals (to provide
the best media playback experience and functionality) have not changed.

The New Plan[tm]!

Currently we provide Winamp 2.81 and Winamp3 for our users. Both programs
provide some really excellent features and functionality, and a lot of those
benefits do not overlap between the two products.

We intend to combine everything our users like about Winamp 2.81 and Winamp3
into one version of Winamp.

Step 1: Winamp 2.9 (next week)

Winamp 2.9 will be built on Winamp 2.x, and include new features such as video
support and a media library. Winamp 2.9 will also provide some new APIs for
tighter plug-in integration. We will even be releasing portable device plug-ins
as examples.

Step 1.5: release lots of updates to Winamp 2.9x, to fix bugs and add minor improvements.

Step 2: Winamp "5" (this summer)

(The "5" is just a working title, and may or may not be used.. The (slightly amusing) thought is that Winamp 2 + Winamp3 = Winamp 5; but not everybody around is sold on that idea. We'll see.)

This version will integrate Winamp3 skin and script support into the Winamp 2.x platform.
This will allow users who do not wish to have complex freeform skins to use
classic Winamp skin(s), with the full performance of Winamp 2.x.
Those who wish to use more advanced Winamp3 skins can do so as well.
The integration will be seamless.

Initially this version of Winamp will not support Wasabi components.
That may or may not change as we go forward,
we have yet to see how worthwhile that will be.
We have and will be extending Winamp 2.x's plug-in architecture greatly to
allow much of the same functionality that can be accomplished with Wasabi).

We also plan on adding CD ripping and burning capability for this release.

We are aiming to release this version sometime (read: towards the end of) this
summer (2003).

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Profit!

(don't worry about steps 3 and 4, they are just a lame Southpark reference)

To just sum things up: plan going forward:
  • Winamp 2.9, March 2003
    - Adds video and library and new APIs for better plug-in integration to Winamp 2.x
  • Winamp "5" (title unknown), Late Summer 2003
    - Adds Winamp3 skin support, CD ripping, CD burning.
    - Fully supports Winamp "classic" and Winamp3 skins
    - Fully supports Winamp "classic" plug-ins
    - Does not initially support Winamp3 (Wasabi) components.


For developer questions, please ask in this forum.
For press inquires, please contact Ann Burkart <mailto:burkartann@aol.com>.


-Nullsoft

P.S. Steve _REALLY_ is an evil robot. Really. Of course, this remark annoys him. Because it is TRUE
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Old 21st March 2003, 19:21   #2
steve
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With as many views as this, why are you people afraid to respond or ask questions?

-s

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Ex Llama Wrangler
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Old 21st March 2003, 19:25   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by steve
With as many views as this, why are you people afraid to respond or ask questions?

-s
I have a question.. will 2.9 have working dual monitor support when its out of beta? Because currently it doesnt work. Also with plugins can it be possible to add dual monitor support for them too (IE allowing full screen on the second monitor and not the first).
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Old 21st March 2003, 20:20   #4
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Does this mean there will be no Winamp3 release in future???
I don't like the idea, that there will no .wac support in Winamp "5"

Sorry for my really bad english
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Old 21st March 2003, 20:27   #5
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we've recieved a few reports of this multimon issue. we'll investigate.

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Ex Llama Wrangler
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Old 21st March 2003, 20:29   #6
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wonderblood, winamp 5 is very focused on making sure that the client is as fast and solid as possible. as wasabi matures further, we'll decide to bring in more and more of the feature set into the winamp 5 client... currently, the skin engine is the most mature so that's where we're starting...

-s

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Old 21st March 2003, 20:41   #7
-[WonderBlood]-
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okay, thx steve, we'll see but what about winamp3, will it developed on?

Sorry for my really bad english
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Old 21st March 2003, 22:34   #8
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i hope that in the future winamp3 will be back in a stable form. go brennan!

i don't suck, right?
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Old 22nd March 2003, 02:28   #9
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Um, will the ML in 2.9 actually *WORK*? By that I mean we still (as of 488, I haven't checked this in 498 but it looks like it's there too) can't delete entries all the time; and sometimes we can't even modify them. I'd rather have to wait for Winamp 2.9 to load the song info every time you add it than not have my ML updating itself automatically (like, when you change an ID3 tag but it doesn't change in the PL...) or even manually (when you specifically hit reload info)

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Old 22nd March 2003, 04:31   #10
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thepyr0x: why don't you try it? It works great.

- `jarsonic
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Old 22nd March 2003, 05:20   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by jarsonic
thepyr0x: why don't you try it? It works great.
- `jarsonic
What??? Is it out??? I've gone there for 2 weeks now and have not found it!

I sure hope there'll be Win95 support Got that OS at work and the folks there refuse to give us anything new!

Cheerios
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Old 22nd March 2003, 06:35   #12
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Re: Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

Quote:
Originally posted by Nullsoft

We also plan on adding CD ripping and burning capability for this release.
First off, 2.9 kicks ass. Excellent work Nullsoft! I love it!

Anyway, I would love well done burning/ripping in winamp. While I am confident it would be hard to mess up the burning aspect, but it would be hard to do the ripping component perfect.

For example, do you know what codec you are going to use? Is it gonna be set, or can you choose? I encode only with LAME.
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Old 22nd March 2003, 08:13   #13
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Memory Usage

As we all know, Winamp 3 uses a lot more resources than WinAmp 2.xx does. Can you tell me how much more memory Winamp "5" uses, when one wants to use freeform skins?
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Old 22nd March 2003, 08:15   #14
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I think this cd-ripping will not be for those who currently use EAC+LAME or similar programs. I think it's gonna be for those who want a cd ripped in less than 10 minutes and don't care that much about the quality.
If it supports external encoders (eg: LAME), that's one step, but I certainly doubt the ripper will be as good as EAC (read each bit at least twice, if they don't mach, read the bit up to 32 times, to decide wheter it's a 1 or a 0).
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Old 22nd March 2003, 11:28   #15
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where the hell can I get Winamp 2.9 ???
here: http://www.nullsoft.com/cookie

Sorry for my really bad english
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Old 22nd March 2003, 14:14   #16
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The ripper will probably be LAME...just because that seems to be the biggest trend.
and it probly will support external encoders; how else would they allow support for ripping to ogg, or whatever other formats you people use nowadays

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Old 22nd March 2003, 17:05   #17
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Oh man.... 2.9 is really cool. At least, the ML is really, really, really cool. And the video windows is pretty hot too. I just wish they were in Winamp3... I mean, it dosen't seem to hard to have them in the next release of Winamp3, and while I appreciate 2.9, it just feels a little too musty for me - I want my alt-clicking and sidecar. Oh well. Push, Brennan, push!

Edit: I also wish the OSD for video would go away after a while... it's a little weird.

Edit Again: OK, so I can't play things directly from the ML. Bleh! I can't wait to see the final release of this - I hope these things get fixed (at least by Winamp5). *sigh* Actually I just wish this would all come to Winamp3.

Last edited by cortana; 22nd March 2003 at 17:25.
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Old 22nd March 2003, 23:50   #18
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Will 2.9 have (cuz as far as I can tell the beta does not) that enqueue (within a playlist) feature I use so very much in 3

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Old 23rd March 2003, 15:59   #19
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For those that missed it . . .

Winamp 2.9 beta1 discussion was here:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=129231

2.9 beta2 discussion is here:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=129443
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Old 23rd March 2003, 18:34   #20
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How will the maki coding system change in the final release of winamp 5, if at all?

CGA-STACKS (DA) | AIRPS 2.0 (DA) | AIRPS 2.0 (Removed by WA.com Available @ DA) | MAKI/M Ext Icons | Oberon
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Old 23rd March 2003, 23:12   #21
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i think that you guys (at nullsoft) realized that winamp3 was a mistake. slow, slow, slow, thats how winamp 3 can be defined. i dont know much about wasabi but i think it s*cks. i think you realized it too =) anyway, justin is back (he's the man anyway) and things are getting better... winamp 2.9x will be f*cking good and i think winamp 5 will be as well.
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Old 24th March 2003, 00:29   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by blinkrebel
i think that you guys (at nullsoft) realized that winamp3 was a mistake. slow, slow, slow, thats how winamp 3 can be defined. i dont know much about wasabi but i think it s*cks. i think you realized it too =) anyway, justin is back (he's the man anyway) and things are getting better... winamp 2.9x will be f*cking good and i think winamp 5 will be as well.
/me slaps blinkrebel

i don't suck, right?
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Old 24th March 2003, 00:35   #23
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Bugs, Feature requests

(NOTE: I am a rock, and opened a new thread instead of hitting reply. Please don't kill me )

These are all on the Library (which kicks a$$ BTW)

BUGS:
* When using the Formats listing, click Audio, then click the second entry in the Artist sublisting. It doesn't always update the MP3 listing area. I've had about a 50% repetition on this bug.
* If you change the Artist on an MP3, it doesn't update the Artist data in the Library.
* When you update the album name, it should really move the entry automagically, instead of requiring a forced refresh through a click on a different artist, then a click back.
* Switching artists quickly seems to cause some wonkiness in the library display. It doesn't always happen, but I've seen the library suddenly get really jerky until you give it a couple seconds to catch up. I don't know if this has to do with scanning the XML or what, but it can be kind of irritating.

FEATURE REQUESTS:
* Please add a rebuild menu option so we can force a database rebuild from the known directory list. Having to go into exploder and delete folders is inane.
* Please add a rescan option, or update the compact option to also scan for new items in your media folders. Having to readd the folder that contains new MP3s when it's already in the library is a pain, and it isn't intuitive.
* Maybe add directory update notifications (win32) on the directories in the library, so the library can keep up with adds and deletes while it runs? This might be silly, it may be better to simply have the library stuff rescan your media folders at Winamp startup.

I'm liking this guys -- I have the reliability of Winamp 2 with the #1 feature I liked in WA3. Rock ON!
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Old 24th March 2003, 03:33   #24
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Tack another bug ontop your list.. a very annoying one. I am now getting blue screens of death under win2k on closing out winamp. I'm really fucking pissed off right now and holding back from ranting to much because this POS just caused me to lose some really important downloads. Seriously guys get your act together
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Old 24th March 2003, 04:24   #25
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Quote:
Seriously guys get your act together
Don't you know that it's a beta?

Betas are not stable and by downloading it, you're actually risking your computer's stability. So download it ONLY if you're willing to take the risks.
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Old 24th March 2003, 05:12   #26
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And you're inferring that complete versions won't compromise stability?
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Old 24th March 2003, 05:23   #27
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ok.. i am trying the winamp 2.9.. and i like it. actually i think i like it better than winamp 3.. it is speedy. and does video. amazing!!! i figured it could be done speedily.

i notice theres no library button on the skin. not a big deal.
the video options are even better. i like the library better.

i think it was a good choice to add these thinks in winamp 2.9

thanks nullsoft

oh p.s. one thing i think could do as a REALLY NICE OPTION in the video tab. make it so that if you use the x (close button) on the video window, the playback will stop, and not continue to the next video.. make it do the same thing as the stop button.

because when i close the video window im done with video
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Old 24th March 2003, 11:10   #28
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you can choose in the options to have the library launch from the winamp logo (bottom right main window).

you can choose in the options to have the video playback stop on window close.

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Old 24th March 2003, 14:45   #29
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I have one problem with the Winamp library. Most of times when I scroll through my songs I want to enqueue a song. So I think it would be a good idea that you could enqueue a song with a single keystroke. That would make things a lot easier.

My second problem is that when I use the shift -> enter command to enqueue a song Winamp often recognizes as a "play selected file(s)". This also have the effect that my plalist is deleted :-( .The reason is that I press the shift enter too quickly. I have found out that it only works if the enter key is pressed a considerable amount of time. Resolution: shift -> enter should ALWAYS be interpreted as an enqueue song.

Of course the second problem wouldn't even exist if you could enqueue with a single keystroke/mouseklick, since you would avoid the messy shift -> enter pressing.
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Old 24th March 2003, 21:28   #30
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yo i got a question for ya. How about DVD Decoding/Playback? That would be really cool. And I played mpeg's / avi's in WinAMp3 and u know what...it was slow as hell. max 2 fps. I'm hoping you know about this shit and are fixing it but if not, there's your heads up bug report. I'd also think it would be cool to allow .MOV format to be played. Thanx peace out playa
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Old 24th March 2003, 21:42   #31
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.MOV is copyrighted by Apple, and most likely will never be playable in Winamp.

DVD Decoding/Playback may come, but it would probably be in a "Platinum" or some other pay version of winamp, as the DVD decoding codec requires money to license.

MPEGs/AVIs play fine for me, and thousands of other people. Something was most likely wrong with your conifiguration or the installed codecs on your system.
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Old 24th March 2003, 22:29   #32
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Re: Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

Quote:
Originally posted by Nullsoft
Step 3: ???

Step 4: Profit!

(don't worry about steps 3 and 4, they are just a lame Southpark reference)
ROTFL, when did u start collecting underpants?

Norman
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Old 24th March 2003, 22:38   #33
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the only thing make me sad is
Quote:
Step 4: Profit!
but I understand you,nullsoft, ... (cry out loud)



It is funny that history repeat itself. Winamp shareware, then freeware, and then shareware again
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Old 24th March 2003, 22:39   #34
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it was a joke Mgz...a jooooke
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Old 25th March 2003, 00:39   #35
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Any idea when I'll be able to get my hands on the dev kit & examples for doin mp3 player support (I'm planning on doing something for my Samsung YP-700; cuz the software it comes with sucks)

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Old 25th March 2003, 03:57   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quake110
Don't you know that it's a beta?

Betas are not stable and by downloading it, you're actually risking your computer's stability. So download it ONLY if you're willing to take the risks.
Way to read commando!
I was pissed off at the time (as I said.. which you happend to miss), yes I know its beta software.
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Old 25th March 2003, 04:29   #37
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Re: Re: Winamp 2.9, Winamp3, and the future

Quote:
Originally posted by badrad
First off, 2.9 kicks ass. Excellent work Nullsoft! I love it!

Anyway, I would love well done burning/ripping in winamp. While I am confident it would be hard to mess up the burning aspect, but it would be hard to do the ripping component perfect.

For example, do you know what codec you are going to use? Is it gonna be set, or can you choose? I encode only with LAME.
to add to that, would we be able to encode using the command line LAME using stdin stdout, the DLL is fine for some occasions, but I like to use the --presets, which the DLL doesn't allow (or if it does, I've never seen a client program take advantage of them properly), namely my command line args are this right now: --preset extreme -b32 -q0
which, for me, gets rather close to perfect results, and still in relatively small fizesizes (most of the time)
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Old 25th March 2003, 04:42   #38
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and also, I tried saving my WA3 playlist into an M3U, thinking it's the same format as WA2.81, but WA3 seems to save certain characters (like: — • á ä ñ ð ó æ ç etc., all not unicode), which it really shouldn't need to, as unicode, causing WA2.9 not to be able to recognize the filenames stored in it. can that be fixed either way soon (WA2.9b3 or WA3.1 or later)?

And I'm still waiting for full and proper unicode support in both versions
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Old 25th March 2003, 05:50   #39
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Would be nice if clicking in the ML would just play the song without moving it to the playlist. Personally, cannot think of anything more that can be done to make this beauty better!

Cheerios
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Old 26th March 2003, 07:27   #40
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Am I the only one who doesnt want all these things in its music player? I use winamp for playing my mp3's, not for watching video or whatever. If i want to watch video i'd rather use a program which is dedicated to that. All i really need on a day to day basis is winamp to play mp3's and maintain my playlist (and perhaps use shoutcast), but thats it for me.

So I wonder, will this winamp5 have a core which does just play music files and maintain playlist and will it be extendable with plugins, or will it contain lots of stuff i dont use and increase the resources it uses. Because if so, i'd rather stick to my winamp 2.8.
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