Old 15th December 2001, 19:37   #1
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test some new shit

[UPDATE]
Steve rules.
thread continued here.
[/UPDATE]

i've written a replacement for standard Winamp2's waveOut plugin, you can get it here. it will be probably bundled with the next Winamp2 setup (v2.79, v2.8, whatever); i'd like as many people as possible to run it on their computers to verify if it doesn't do anything stupid (but it really shouldn't). as far as i know, it fixes freeze while seeking on WinXP. it has been tested on win2k/sblive, win2k/ac97 and win98se/sblive (worked perfectly, except for some stupid behaviors specific to lame win2k's waveOut implementation).
ah yeah, sourcecode is included; if you find any probs, feel free to fix them yourself :P

[edit] TADA, my evil DirectSound goes to Winamp setup too, please test it . (WA3 version will be used as default output plugin in final WA3).

[edit2] i've packed most of new stuff into one setup file.

note: useless replies will be deleted, you have been warned.
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Old 16th December 2001, 17:30   #2
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I've been using your Winamp2 waveOut plugin since yesterday and everything is running fine.

Just updated to your latest beta (6 at the time of htis post) and it is great.

Uh yeah, system being win98se/sblive.
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Old 16th December 2001, 18:09   #3
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Re: test some new shit

Quote:
Originally posted by peter
as far as i know, it fixes freeze while seeking on WinXP.
AH KICK ASS! I didn't know this was a wave out bug! Hell I thought I was the only one suffering from it YES!

It happened whenever I would seek over and over again really fast. I'll test this new one out. Thanks!

[edit]at first inspection... both Winamp2&3 seem to be compleately cured of that nasty freezing bug!!! YESSS!!! now i can seek like crazy again!jrsagosa lgjugbugndsn YAYAYbsghbas;gj WOOO!!!
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Old 17th December 2001, 19:24   #4
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The new plugins work just fine, except that the new Waveout plugin breaks my Gapless Output plugin.

Nitpicky, I know, but how am I supposed to listen to full albums in Ogg Vorbis with these stinking gaps? Arg!

BTW, when is Winamp gonna include gapless output by _default_? (XMMS does this already). I'm aware that MP3 is crippled in this area, but other formats can handle it!

Just my $0.02. Good job.
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Old 18th December 2001, 03:29   #5
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Use DirectSound, it has crossfade built in.
 
Old 18th December 2001, 07:42   #6
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I get illegal operation errors exitting Winamp using either output plugin playing standard wave files. Seems to play ok tho'.

edit: Oops, I was using Winamp 2.76. I threw in 2.78 and no such errors occur anymore. My bad. {/action: smack own head}
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Old 18th December 2001, 18:48   #7
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Quote:
sawg:
Use DirectSound, it has crossfade built in.
Thanks for the tip.

Anyway, this is now a bit off-topic, but I will state that crossfading, and gapless playback, are two completely separate things.

The former blends two songs together during transition, which is great for random playback and mixes. The latter can play the songs of any album in order, without sacrificing integrity, exactly as the album was meant to be enjoyed, by simply removing the gaps between songs completely.

Try listening to "The Wall" w/ crossfading - totally ruins the experience.

Gapless playback capability is one (of many) reasons that I now encode w/ Ogg Vorbis as opposed to MP3. And gapless playback capability is one advantage of XMMS over Winamp. But that's neither here nor there.

In anycase, to get back on topic, the new waveout plugin works just fine for me (Win2k), and seems to be quite good, despite breaking the beloved Gapless Output plugin.

Take care.
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Old 18th December 2001, 21:31   #8
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while on the gapless topic

While on the crossfade/gapless topic, let me quote you a post I recently made on another forum, that I unfortunately did not get any useful responses to. Hopefully someone in here has some suggestions:

Lame has had preliminary --nogap support for some time now, but I have not yet figured out a way to successfully play back resulting files totally gaplessly - has anyone else yet figured out how to do this? When I encode with --nogap, the resulting files can be combined to a single file, which does play back gaplessly, proving that the encoding does successfully achieve gaplessness, however all current playback solutions seem to insert some blank frames between tracks at some point in the playback process.

I've tried all the winamp gapless output plugins, which work by leaving the wave device open between tracks and not inserting any silence - using these, uncompressed wav files, as well as ogg files, do playback gaplessly, implying that the output plugin is functioning as advertised. When playing back --nogap mp3s however, there is a small audible gap. Since the only thing that has changed between these scenarios is the input format, my conclusion is that the silence must be being introduced in the input plugin. I have tried Winamp's stock nitrane decoder, as well as the MAD decoder, and another mpg123 based decoder plugin, all with the same results. Does anyone know of another mp3 decoder winamp input plugin which does not introduce any silent samples? Or is there another explanation for this behavior I haven't thought of?
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Old 19th December 2001, 02:49   #9
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I believe Peter mentioned somewhere before that the gap come form Winamp closes and re-opens the output plug-in between tracks, this causes a gap no matter the input plug-in. I believe his new waveOut and DirectSound plug-ins no longer do this.
 
Old 19th December 2001, 17:29   #10
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Hmmmm... if that were what was causing this, then why would wav's and ogg's still play gaplessly? They still go through the output plugin, so if thats where the gap was being introduced, they should exhibit it as well, yet they don't seem to. Regardless, I will try these updated output plugs and see what effect they have - hopefully I'm misunderstanding something, and this will fix it
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Old 19th December 2001, 20:56   #11
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about gapless playback - my out_ds2 does that very well (but gapless stuff is considered a really rough hack and it will be probably never bundled with Winamp).
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Old 19th December 2001, 22:15   #12
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As I suspected, these plugins did not solve the problem - there is still a minisule gap in playback, even with gapless mode enabled in out_ds2. This isn't a flaw in the output plugin though - just like the previously existing gapless output plugins, this one doesn't introduce any gap of its own, but it doesn't do anything to compensate for the gap added by other phases of the playback process (i.e. the input plugin). Now I suppose it would be theoretically possible to write an output plugin which was aware of the input plugin being used, and how many silent samples that plugin adds, and slice them out of the stream... although the superior way to do this would just be to write input plugins which don't suffer from this bug. Hmmmm.......
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Old 19th December 2001, 22:31   #13
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my out_wave is opensourced, feel free to haxor it the way you like it.
i might make (and release with source) gapless variation of it if i get that bored so you can do your evil experiments on it. if you really need gapless playback, i suggest that you use WA3 instead.
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Old 19th December 2001, 22:37   #14
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well unfortunately my evil experiments will have to wait until I have a chunk of spare time to familiarize myself with the winamp plugin API.

As to WA3... it is able to successfully do gapless output? I never thought to try it.

/me heads to the download page to see for himself
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Old 19th December 2001, 22:45   #15
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wa3 is gapless by design (input plugins no longer control output plugins, no more reopening output between tracks).
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Old 19th December 2001, 22:48   #16
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ergh... no luck, still a gap... and a rather big one... along the lines of wa2 with its standard waveout plugin. I installed the WA3 plug you linked at the top of this topic, and enabled directsound output in config as its readme said.... am I missing something?
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Old 19th December 2001, 23:00   #17
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what file formats are you playing ? are you sure that files you are playing don't contain these gaps ? maybe try increasing buffer size in output plugin config or something.

back to topic: too bad, guys, i've been testing my out_evil/out_ds shiz for a few days and found 2 major glitches (while running, not while messing with code; updates uploaded already) and looks like noone else noticed them. too bad. try harder :P
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Old 19th December 2001, 23:46   #18
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OK good news and bad new on the gapless front - I accidently ran the wrong test samples through WA3 for the results I reported in my last post - the gap was in the files. When I tried it with truly gap-free content, the result is much better, but there still is a gap. It's probably the smallest gap I've ever heard - so small I *probably* wouldn't have noticed had I not been listening for it... but hey, I was listening for it

As to what format files I'm using, they are mp3's encoded with Lame --nogap. If you're not familiar with it, Lame's --nogap command line is a beta feature which makes it fudge on track boundaries, pushing them to the nearest frame boundary, thereby eliminating the frame border problem which makes gapless encoding of (MPEG compliant) mp3's impossible (without said cheating). These files, when binary copied together into a single file, do play back gap-free, so the silence isn't in the files.

The architechtural changes you describe for WA3 certainly sound like a Good Thing for champions of gaplessness, however they still won't work if one of the plugins it runs is adding gaps. I suspect that the mpeg audio input plugin (even in WA3) is still adding a sample or two of silence at the beginning or end of tracks.
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Old 20th December 2001, 04:59   #19
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as far as i know, MP3 decoders used in both WA2 and WA3 don't support LAME's nogap stuff, that's why you keep getting that gap.
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Old 20th December 2001, 17:55   #20
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Well there's really no such thing as "supporting" it, it is just a method of encoding mp3s such that no silent samples are added that weren't there in the input waveform. They're still fully MPEG compliant mp3s, just mp3s without excess samples added (like most mp3s). As long as the decoding process isn't adding samples that aren't in the file, it should playback gapless.
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Old 20th December 2001, 18:13   #21
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well, if you can hear gaps in WA3, they're coming from the mp3 decoder (also make sure that you don't use wa3's crossfader, it has some weird bugs)
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Old 21st December 2001, 15:08   #22
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something slightly offtopic: i want to put noob-friendly error messages into out_wave/out_ds (no more mmsystem004 etc). could you guys suggest some easy-to-understand error messages ? DJEgg, Sawg, anyone ? i can also change errors in in_wave (change "no codec error" to something more informative).
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Old 21st December 2001, 19:39   #23
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Yeah, something like . . .
"reinstall your soundcard drivers" would be quite apt (mmsystem007)
or, "oi dummy! you haven't got a soundcard" (mmsystem002)
or, reinstall Windows Multimedia Devices (Media Control - Wave Audio Device)

mmsystem004 (device already in use):
Please switch to DirectSound Output
(or, get a soundcard which supports playback of multiple audio streams)

mmsytem032 would be cool if it could actually detect which system codec is missing, eg. no mp3/divx/wma/etc codec found.

DirectSound error message (could not create direct sound object):
Reinstall latest soundcard drivers and upgrade DirectX
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Old 21st December 2001, 19:45   #24
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ok cool, adding stuff now. i can detect which codec is missing (if someone only gives me sample files that require particular codecs; i think i have some mp3 wavs already).
there is a hack about mmsystem002 stuff so it shows only when there are really no devices present (so it's ok to say "go buy a sound card" or "go install drivers").
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Old 21st December 2001, 21:29   #25
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ok done with out_wave; if you just can't convince your computer to blow some mmsystem, you can check new error messages in source.
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Old 22nd December 2001, 00:28   #26
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updated out_wave again, with even more informative messages.

added some simple codec error messages to in_wave:
"This file requires MP3 ACM codec to be installed."
"This file requires Vorbis ACM codec to be installed."
(not uploaded yet)
any better ideas what to write ? some URLs maybe ? any more codecs which are known to cause this (sample files plz) ?
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Old 22nd December 2001, 02:28   #27
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Hey Peter, when you have the cross fader on and you update an ID3v2 tag it fades. I know the MP3 is stopped and restarted, but is there any way of knowing it is stopped by the ID3 editor?
 
Old 22nd December 2001, 08:28   #28
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no i think, in_mp3 must be closing / flushing device; it might cease to fade if you disable "fade on seek".
seems that in_mp3's id3 updating shiz is really freaky compared to in_vorbis.
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Old 22nd December 2001, 12:41   #29
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There was one example last week of someone who was getting the mmsystem032 error, and it turned out he had to install the DivX codec to be able to play it.
DivX layered WAV's . . . what will they think of next?
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Old 22nd December 2001, 14:10   #30
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ok, downloaded divx shiz, gonna mess with it later. i'm trying to code permanent fix for mp3 wavs in wa3 cnv_wavpcm, but my brain feels like a piece of brick today and thinking hurts me.


Quote:
DivX layered WAV's . . . what will they think of next?
waveformatextensible wavs. i'm sure they will show up sooner or later, and they will surely screw up all old wav playback software. i think i'll add some hacks to support them before someone starts to moan.
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Old 22nd December 2001, 15:35   #31
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Aha! waveformatextensible . . . of course!

Nice one PP
Yup, it's always wise to be prepared in advance.

btw, I know just how you feel.
My head's a shed today too.
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Old 22nd December 2001, 18:00   #32
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wheeee, managed to get cnv_wavpcm to use wa3's mp3 decoder instead of ACM.
now back to wa2 stuff. what's the deal with divx ? i've installed their stuff, but it doesn't contain any audio codecs.
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Old 22nd December 2001, 18:56   #33
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What? No DIVXA32.ACM (DixV Audio Codec) ?
I think mine's a hacked version. Can't remember where I got it though.
I'll get back to ya on this one

[edit]
Try here
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Old 22nd December 2001, 18:59   #34
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hi pp... just 2 tell u there's a famous older divx 3.11 codec with a hacked Radium mp3 codec, same as FhG ACM mp3 codec (dunno if u knew that already)
however, it shouldn't affect winamp at all, 'cos winamp has its own mp3 docoder plugin.
DJEgg, r u sure the divx codec is new divx4.12, or 3.11?

i'm interested in how this new waveout goes on (using wa2.78).. will be hanging around 4 the latest updates

hey and 1 more thing peter, just got yr new midi plugin v2.61b too.. maybe u could write a note on yr site whenever there's an update, so i can check it out.. thx
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Old 22nd December 2001, 19:04   #35
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DJEgg, have a look here:
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/divxcodec.html
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Old 22nd December 2001, 19:05   #36
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Hi

Don't know too much about DivX, but my current version is 4.1.00.3920 and probably needs updating (haven't bothered checking for newer versions for the past couple of months)

[edit]
yeah, been there, done that . . . but like I say, it was a couple of months ago

Cheers
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Old 22nd December 2001, 19:06   #37
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where did u get that version no?

try Multimedia in control panel-> Devices-> video compression codecs-> DivX should be there. the latest version is 4.12.

u know the radium mp3 codec i'm talking about? if u install divx3.11 video codec, u can see the mp3 codec installed at Audio compression codecs-> Fraunhofer sumthing..

but as i say again, it shouldn't affect wa at all
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Old 22nd December 2001, 19:13   #38
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Here, I think?
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/divxcodec4.html

Or maybe here: http://www.divx4.org/software.htm

To be honest, I can't remember

[edit]
yes, I know all about radium codec & MM Control Panel -> Devices, etc etc

Under Video Compression codecs, I've got:
DivX ;-) MPEG-4 Video Codec (Fast-Motion)
DivX ;-) MPEG-4 Video Codec (Low-Motion)

Under Audio Compression Codecs, I've got:
DivX ;-) Audio Compressor (DIVXA32.ACM)
Properties v4.02 - hacked with joy :-)

I'm not too bothered about updating to v4.12 . . . as yet.


btw, I've been using the Fraunhofer Pro codec for many years

Also, I've never experienced any MMSYSTEM Errors before.
All I did was help to suss out what they actually meant
(for TSGH -> Useful Links)
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Old 22nd December 2001, 19:28   #39
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i watch movies in divx format now & then, worth getting divx4.12~
i'm using Franhofer advanced.. v close

wow u really got a lot of links there, nice work (i've never actually been there though, 1st time )

will be back tomolo to see how r things going on, good nite DJEgg (i'm from Singapore, 12hrs diff.. now's 4.50am on my side)

Last edited by LoyC; 22nd December 2001 at 19:47.
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Old 22nd December 2001, 19:53   #40
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ok dloaded divx stuff, hacking in progress.
about in_midi news update - ok, maybe later (i'm overswamped with msg windows / forum IE windows now). i've just updated changelog in the manual btw.
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