President seeks congressional approval

[rockouthippie]

What tragedy? Tragedy is when the trade center blows up. This is just your government in action. You think Boehner is stupid? What about Obama?

Obama discussed the medical care issue carefully with the people who were ripping us off and they think we should pay anything they want us to pay. Not only that, we should get fined if we don't.

[fc*uk]

I generally sit up late at night and wonder.

I wonder what happens when you live in a country that are so lawsuit crazed that no one wants to be a physician anymore?

I wonder what happens when you live in a country where getting your medical degree will put you under an easy $300,000 - $400,000; and that's only your medical school costs?

I wonder what happens when you add 30 million people to the healthcare system?

I wonder what happens when you add 30 million people to the healthcare system and your number of physicians in the country are decreasing?

I wonder what happens when you add 30 million people to the healthcare system and provide physicians with reimbursement rates similar to medicaid? We do know why offices put caps on how many medicaid patients they will take, right?

Studies have been done. Flooding a medical system in this manner actually causes quality of care to go down. Early symptoms are missed. Access to needed medical equipment is not there because it's overbooked too. Medical costs actually end up going through the roof.

Frankly, I'm pissed the GOP threw in the towel. Being able to guess your approximate respective ages the two of you will never have to deal with this; I will. That goes back to ROH's comment about the kids killing the older generations for making their lives hell.

ROH: your comments about big pharma are somewhat true. However, more often than not, a new approach to an existing drug is taken in order to get it back under patent protection. Big pharma can't simply invent a new drug and claim it works; the FDA won't allow that.

Now, yes, I realize that indicates that the FDA is a competent organization, which they are not. I think you have seem me write this before: remember ***** that the FDA banned? The patient control group studied was diabetics that poorly managed their diet. You don't say that ***** causes heart attacks. Hmmmm... ever test it on, oh I dunno, anyone who was fucking healthy?

And of course, the more malicious side to the above also exists where the FDA approves drugs that they have no business approving. Now maybe that is because the pharma company that developed it withheld clinical information from the FDA. Maybe not. Luckily when information is withheld, people are getting a nice bed in jail for it.

Aminifu: there are two sides to every story that one must consider. Playing the devil's advocate... Obama could have been willing to negotiate with the GOP to keep the government open. Hell, Clinton did. I don't care what the stakes are or who it is, drawing a line in the sand is never a way to get people on your side; it is not a way to open negotiations. Publicly stating 5,000 times that in people in government must be willing to negotiate, not everyone gets what they want, and then drawing a line in the sand makes you look like a total fucking asshole no matter who you are to those that realize what you just did.

Let's take that further. Specifically telling everyone involved behind closed doors to make this as painful as possible for the American people is just childish. Closing open air monuments and opening them for immigration marches only strengthens the point that you are acting like a child.

What I find really funny is how the media is spinning this whole mess as how obama and congress saved the world. Really? How? Because the did their goddamned jobs? Yea. Let's pat them on the back. Good job fellas. Way to have foresight. I've got a suggestion, the government is only funded for a few months longer; how about all you clowns start working on a budget we can all agree on now?

They say Obama manipulates the media in this country more than any other president. Sounds like a good way to divide the country ... which is kinda what everyone wants.

If you only listen to one side of the story, chances are you are being lied to 50% of the time, at least with the clowns we have in government. It's interesting when you pull up what ever American news source and then look to a foreign country... the stories are a little different and much less one sided.

To show how bipartisan I am, I've got a very simple rule come next election. If you are currently in, you are out. I don't care who you are. We need people that can not only do their jobs, but are proactive about it. Way to run a country always reacting to everything and shoving things down people's throats at the last second.

edit: heh. V-I-O-X-X is filtered. Holy pharma balls.

[rockouthippie]

I wonder what happens when you live in a country where getting your medical degree will put you under an easy $300,000 - $400,000; and that's only your medical school costs?

You compete against doctors from Pakistan and India, who are as well trained and paid 10 cents on the buck for their education.

You talk like what the drug companies are doing with regards to saving patents and not lives isn't preposterous. You act like the 3 days pay I spent to go to the doctor for some sleeping pills to treat periodic insomnia isn't preposterous. You act like 6 months pay for 2 nights of observation in a hospital isn't nuts.

About 10 years ago, I took anti-depressants for a while. Shit. $300 a month for anti-depressants. That's fucking depressing.

You could make a drug that would raise the dead, but what good is it if no one can afford it?

Obamacare didn't do a blessed thing to take the scam out. It carefully avoids anything which keeps us from getting ripped off. It even stole $600BN from grannies Medicaid.

The lawyers are happy. Big Pharma is happy. Big medical is happy. This should tell you that you should not be happy.

I want to hear about Karen Ignagni having her ass kicked so bad, you find her in a tub with her toaster.

When medical, pharma and insurance executives start leaving the building via a 4th floor window, we'll know we have it right.

[rockouthippie]

One more thought. How about Hillary? One thing about Democrats. They are overconfident. The smoke around Clinton Global Initiative is bad. I don't think Hillary could get elected President.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/us/politics/unease-at-clinton-foundation-over-finances-and-ambitions.html?pagewanted=4&_r=3&hp&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1382090429-qHSUIhrquIyq3bDFckI6/A

What happens to Obamacare with a Republican president? I think Obama is going to be one of the most hated Presidents in history. It might take until a year or two after he's gone.

Obama said we should have universal coverage. 35 million people seem to be pretty good sized "crack" to fall through. This is what Obama calls it when you can't afford medical insurance even with subsidies. "Falling through the cracks" Of course, you will be fined on top of not being covered. I think 35 million remaining uninsured are a chasm and not a crack. A crack is 1%. A chasm is 12%.

One of the most important things is tort reform. Not even a wink at it.

ACA is the exact opposite of what a health care reform bill should look like. It was written by the special interests for the special interests. If it helps anybody, it was an accident.

We do know why offices put caps on how many medicaid patients they will take, right?

Doctors aren't going to have that right. They probably wouldn't mind if there was any tort reform. Doctors generally hate this law.

Want to see Obamacare die in one working day? Force federal employees to buy insurance the way we are going to have to. Obamacare was so good, government exempted itself. Cheney wouldn't get a million dollar heart out of Obamacare. He wouldn't get a million dollar heart out of medicare either. But he's a government employee, so Blue Cross would spend just about anything.

I think we should start with a plan Congress has to buy.

I am by nature a capitalist. But if the best we can do is embed a corrupt system by forcing everyone to buy overpriced, incompetent medical care from a run-amok cartel, we should have gone single payer.

[fc*uk]

You compete against doctors from Pakistan and India, who are as well trained and paid 10 cents on the buck for their education.

That is actually quite humorous . Actually, a lot of times those foreign medical grads (FMG's) have to repeat a significant portion of their trining. Aditionally, a lot of the times the fmg's are not board certified, which is why they are not associated with hospitals and run their own private practice.

You talk like what the drug companies are doing with regards to saving patents and not lives isn't preposterous. You act like the 3 days pay I spent to go to the doctor for some sleeping pills to treat periodic insomnia isn't preposterous. You act like 6 months pay for 2 nights of observation in a hospital isn't nuts.

It all nuts. All of it. At the same time, these pharma companies need to get their costs into developing the drug back, they need to pay their staff that developed it for 10 years, and god forbid they try to turn a profit so they can fund the next drug. I dunno what the answer is here. Drug development costs serious money. There is a back story to drug development that many people do not know about (the cost). These people want drugs for free; they still want the same innovation. Again, you can't have it both ways. This stuff costs real money. Your drugs from 20-30 years ago are so damn cheap because the current regulations did not exist back then, so these drugs were grandfathered in.

The hospital costs are absurd too. We wanted affordable healthcare (medicare and medicaid). The government reimburses physicians with this coverage about $25-$60 a patient no matter what is done, no matter how much time is spent. The government forces them to lose money on every single medicare/medicaid patient they see. The resources that medicare/medicade patients take out of the medical system is the same as you and I, their care costs real money. Real money that is above and beyond $60. These physicians have a practice to run, nurses to pay, office staff to pay, overhead, etc. The cost needs to be made up somewhere ... so the buck gets passed to those that can afford it, and suddenly you have a $300 office visit, or an ER stay that costs six months salary.

I'm not saying any of that is "right". All I am saying is stuff costs real money. That money must be made up somewhere. Given the current laws that are in place, this is how it is done.

I don't understand why no one touched tort reform as I have pointed out several times. In my opinion the natural order of things should be to frst drive down the absurd medical costs and then worry about getting people insured. Seems a little more economical to me then adding 30 million new donors to a system that is out of control. Kinda makes me wonder exactly how many pockets we are lining.

As a final note, if you take away the right of a physician reject medicaid, you are going to run them all out of business or they will be forced to see so many patients in one day to make up the cost that they will be able to spend 15 seconds with each. Sounds like the beginning of missing early symptoms, which will eventually drive up medical costs.

This is exactly why the ACA is a load of bullox as you pointed out. Nothing is fixed, people's pockets get lined, and you and I get to pay for it.

[rockouthippie]

Aditionally, a lot of the times the fmg's are not board certified, which is why they are not associated with hospitals and run their own private practice.

I like that part. Unfortunately, my Pakistani doctor moved. He'd see me for $65. I liked him bett.er than his triple priced American counterparts. How good of a doctor? How good does he have to be?

I don't understand why no one touched tort reform as I have pointed out several times.

It's really simple. Malpractice lawyers own the Democratic Party. If you can't sue for a million over a hang nail, life just wouldn't be worth living. You will never get tort reform out of the Democrats. Never. You might consider the slant of a law professor being President.

All this bullshit about Obama being an "African American" Dude is a 100% suit.

[Aminifu]

All this bullshit about Obama being an "African American" Dude is a 100% suit.

What does that mean? He is or isn't what you expect? I know you know better than trying to 'read a book by it's cover'. You don't know Obama, so how can you say what he is? You see his public side, the role that he plays for public consumption (like any politician). As an African American, I know that we as individuals, more often than not, defy the stereotypes placed on us by ourselves and by non-African Americans. This is probably true for every ethnic group.

I did not say Boehner is stupid. I said the GOP tactics were stupid. Boehner has shown he does not possess the intellect and savvy that I've read that Rommel had. I say that because I take into account how long he has been a politician on the national level, the power level he has gained, and the control he is able to exert. On Obama's side, looking at the same things, I have to conclude he has 'a lot more going on where it counts' as far as being a politician. His rise to the top 'job' was one of the fastest in American history.

The first 16 days of this October was a tragedy for America, however you want to rate it. Both sides drew lines in the sand. Nobody won and everybody lost something.

Average Americans vote for (rich people, business, and special interests hire) politicians to think for them and make laws to regulate behavior. We deserve what we get. It is very important to look at (research) and listen to all sides because all sides lie. We need to hear all the lies to have any hope of figuring out where the truth is or at least the least damaging lie (if such a thing is possible).

American politics is a game of 'numbers and nonsense'. The 2 major political parties are 2 sides of the same coin. They take turns playing 'bad cop' and 'good cop'. The only way to have a fighting chance to correctly guess which way particular politicians may go is through their voting records (for, against, and no vote) and not by anything they say. Throw 'all the bums out' and go with all new guys (with no voting records) and it becomes a total crap shoot. It's better to do your homework and support those whose voting record you agree with, imo.

Actors (and those with acting skills) make good politicians. This is not a bad thing. Appearing sincere, when you really are not, is a requirement of the job. On the national level, it's a 'sweet' job. Politicians are human and base most of their decisions on self interest, just like everybody else.

Being born in 1951, I have developed a bias (especially over the last 20 years) that has totally replaced what I was taught and told during the first 18 years of my life. But I still believe America can accomplish almost anything, if most of us pull together for at least a decade (there are many examples). I hope I live long enough to see that kind of compromise and cooperation return.

[rockouthippie]

What does that mean?

I mean that Doctor Barack Obama J.D. Harvard Magna Cum Laude, Law Professor Barack Obama has about as much in common with the common man as a Martian. He is an elitist egghead. He plays golf at a country club I parked cars in. His loyalty to the rich, our medical cartel, our legal cartel, our military industrial complex and not you and me is so obvious I am really appalled you didn't notice.



Then we've got middle class Michelle. Victim of feeling uncomfortable sometimes while at Princeton! OMG! Not that! I think everyone who's not driving a Vestron would feel uncomfortable at Princeton. This was her thesis. It made me sigh. Met Barry while they were trying to organize community action getting 6 figures for being lawyers agitating poor people.

You can't be left or right and like 20 Trillion bucks going out the door. This thing needs to find some economy. Our great, great grandkids will be paying our sorry asses off.

This is from a guy who was born the last year of the "baby boom" I'm real sorry kids. My generation and the one before it lived so far beyond our means, you're gonna be eating Mac n' Cheese for most of your life to ever make a dent in paying it off. The change of the United States to a service based economy has failed. You guys can probably try to get some of what we rabbited away by wiping our asses for minimum wage. Rich people will take a nice chunk to make sure you're politically correct.

If I thought Barack Obama was truly involved in a struggle against poverty and iniquity, I would have voted for him. I'm sure he finds it a scintillating subject of conversation while drinking Bud Light and playing golf with other people who can afford $400 for 18 holes.

We got no bankers in jail. ACA is a pork sandwich with extra blubber.

Who was this guy trying to help? It wasn't any African American. Fuck. It wasn't any American I know. My golf costs $12.

[Aminifu]

Who was this guy trying to help? It wasn't any African American. Fuck. It wasn't any American I know. My golf costs $12.

Ok, he doesn't meet your expectations. Too bad. I've lived in Chicago for over 30 years and got to learn about Obama before you did. He doesn't surprise me. I never joined the congregation, but I listened to several of the same sermons he did, given by Rev. Wright, and saw his reactions. I saw how he related to people during his 'social worker' days. When he decided to enter politics, I thought he would never get anywhere given his name. But he picked the 'right' ward and the rest, as they say, is history.

Of course he has Anglo-American friends on the high end (how else could he have become POTUS). There are plenty of rich Afro-Americans, too (and not just in sports and entertainment). There are also plenty of us in the middle class doing just fine. We are not all uneducated/under-educated 'dudes and shorties' running 'round the hood', only interested in sex, drugs, gang banging, hip-hop, and a 'good time'.

America is no longer a 'melting pot' (probably never was). It's a 'salad bowl' and diversity is a good thing.

Michelle's parents were mid to lower middle class and wanted more for their children. That's what all Americans want. My parents lived at the poverty line for most of their lives, but made me understand the importance of education and that having money is not the only goal in life. My good grades (and M.L. King's murder) allowed me to earn a full scholarship to M.I.T. The jobs (doing what I like doing) my education qualified me for has allowed me to live better (economically) than my parents ever did.

I believe Obama is sincere in wanting to rebuild the middle class and maintain or expand the 'safety net' for the poor. The rich can (and will) stay rich and more will join them. Until a lot more people start working again, the rich need to 'kick in' a little more. As a group, they are paying most of the country's bills and providing the real opportunities for growth anyway. They just need to step off the sidelines and take some risks (some will lose a little, but they will still have plenty and may even make most of what they lose back). All the Government (all 3 parts) can do is try to 'keep the ball rolling'.

Obama is able to understand and relate to both ends, and the middle, in ways you and I will never understand. I know poverty and the 'hood' and thru my opportunities via M.I.T, I got to 'rub elbows' with some at the high end (economic and political). I can relate to some of what I think he feels and the conflicts I know he deals with every day. Sure, I would like to see something major done for my ethnic group (and maybe something will happen), but I know that is highly unlikely. Any real progress must begin at the family level anyway.

Obama knows his full ten year plan will never be implemented. The US Presidency is not a dictatorship. He only had 4 years and another 4 was not certain. He chose to try 1 major thing for the whole country instead of nipping around the edges (after helping pull the country back from a 1920's style depression while dealing with 2 major wars being fought on the credit card). The ACA is the start, not the end (it will evolve). Win, lose, or draw, I applaud him for it.

[rockouthippie]

Obama is able to understand and relate to both ends

Both ends of leftist and elitist?

after helping pull the country back from a 1920's style depression

I would consider that fairly you'd have to say Obama has screwed up the economy in favor of other issues. He tossed a couple trillion at the banks and didn't make any jobs. They bought commodities futures instead. So everybody's grocery bill went up including people who can least afford it.

Every month, we make 200,000 less jobs than we made 18 year old kids. It's an army that will kick our ass if we don't fix that.

[Wildrose-Wally]

[rockouthippie]

Obamacare = "Smelly" Watch Obama's War:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1468710007/

Sorry Wally. Probably only in the US.

Even Left Wing Whishy Washy Bush Bashing PBS Frontline can't help but be critical. This is the chronicle of our President completely selling out to special interests. None of those special interests likely intersect are likely to intersect anyone here in a good way.

[fc*uk]

Interesting Frontline story ROH...

Watched the entire thing ... always what I expected to have happened.

I'd forgotten about the bribes Obama had to make to his own political party. Kinda makes me pissed off at Nebraska all over again.

[rockouthippie]

Our medical care is such a bad deal you've got to make it a crime not to buy it.