Winamp Backup Tool (v3.6.4 available, released on 19-12-2022)

[MrSinatra]

thats fine, but its not what i meant. what i meant is that in vista and win7, it can be a pain to simply nav to some places on HD, esp system areas, and then manipuate files in those areas; all this due to permissions issues, "fake" recoursive file structure, and the like.

in a future ver, i hope consideration of allowing dual simultaneous backups, one in appdata, one in a user defined location, will be contemplated.

[Koopa]

Well my last reply to this, really.

1. You don't ever really need to manually access the backed up files

2. After v1.0, 'Automatic' will save in AppData, while under 'Custom' users can select, where backed up files should be saved.

3. If I save to 2 backup places, how does the installer know, which backup resource should be used for restoring?
But if you got working code for that, I'd be glad to take a look at it.


So to make it clear, how 1.0 will work:

Windows 2000/XP:

C:\Documents & Settings\YourName\Local Settings\Appdata\Winamp_Backup

Windows Vista/Windows 7

C:\Users\YourName\Appdata\Roaming\Winamp_Backup

[MrSinatra]

i don't know why this is a defensive or combative sounding convo. everything is meant only contructively. all choices are yours obviously. but as a dev i would think u'd be interested in user input and ideas.

in reply:

1. this is a faulty assumption. devs often put theory above practice, and that is never how it works out.

2. i thought automatic was what files to backup? now its also where to backup? i have to do custom just to be able to pick where to backup as opposed to what to backup?

i don't think location should have anything to do with those choices. its a separate pref/option/setting.

3. several ways to do this. it could simply look in the user defined location first, and use that first, and if not present, then go to appdata. it could also alternatively prompt the user to pick which to use.

thats actually important because such a feature essentially allows you to create "profiles" of your winamp install. ie. you can have different winamp configs/setups switched on the fly. also, it allows you to pick a different backup in case your primary one is corrupted.

besides, if you want to xfer the backup to another machine, again, appdata is not the best place to have it (only).

this is meant only as constructive feedback, nothing more. thx again for your efforts.

[Koopa]

If I wouldn't be interested in user feedback, I never would create a thread.
So dunno, what you got wrong, I just answered your questions.

I just constructively explained, why I made which decision. And that's a main thing in software development, decisions must be made.

1. this is a faulty assumption. devs often put theory above practice, and that is never how it works out.

The main aim of the tool, is it to provide a noob-friendly backup tool, for users, who mistakenly loose or destroy their settings.

We all know, where to find the folder and how to copy it.

Less advanced users, always do mistakenly bad things. I've explained in my previous reply, why I save it in Appdata.

Also, then you probably want, that Winamp doesn't use AppData too for the settings, or?

2. i thought automatic was what files to backup? now its also where to backup? i have to do custom just to be able to pick where to backup as opposed to what to backup?

We have 2 kind of users, non-advanced (see above) and advanced users.

Non-advanced users simply want an automatic tool, which doesn't require much user feedback. Something you asked for too, if I can remember.

My father probably would save the backed up zip file somewhere and never would find it again.

While advanced users should have the ability to decide, what and where should be backed up/restored.

Also note, that we talk about a future version, even version 1.0 isn't ready yet.

3. several ways to do this. it could simply look in the user defined location first, and use that first, and if not present, then go to appdata. it could also alternatively prompt the user to pick which to use.

This would require an additional bunch of code, with several integrity checks and it's obsolete. You can choose in future, where the file will be saved, so I fail to see the point of having two locations, if the user can set, where the file will be saved.

also, it allows you to pick a different backup in case your primary one is corrupted.

Backup Tool will work across profiles in future too. If you can choose, where the file should be saved, you can use the the tool to 'Restore' the settings to a different profile too.

Currently we are at the begin. A lot of things are possible and we trying our best to provide a tool, which will satisfy the users.

But don't forget, that all code requires a lot of time.

Even a simple backup files to Winamp_Backup folder thing is probably a lot more work, than people would expect.

My main goal is it to provide an approved, simple backup tool as soon as real life allows it.
Then we have a stable base, which can be worked on in future.

Just take it easy, I guarantee you that I'll listen to user feedback, just lemme work on the base first.

[MrSinatra]

Originally posted by Koopa
This would require an additional bunch of code, with several integrity checks and it's obsolete. You can choose in future, where the file will be saved, so I fail to see the point of having two locations, if the user can set, where the file will be saved.

i was trying to accommodate your valid concern, that i concur with, that dopey users need to be saved from themselves. so thats the point... while i think even advanced users would appreciate the redundancy, dopey users could be saved from themselves IF they somehow messed up the user defined location backup.

Originally posted by Koopa
Backup Tool will work across profiles in future too. If you can choose, where the file should be saved, you can use the the tool to 'Restore' the settings to a different profile too.

unfortunately we seem to misunderstand each other quite a bit, (prob my fault).

what i was talking about with this bit was a winamp profile, NOT a windows profile.

think of EAC. you can have many "profiles" of that app, the way its config'd, that have nothing to do with what windows profile ur logged in under.

i know thats not how i used the word "profile" earlier in the thread, but this is a wholly different context from that.

the context here is imagine being in any given windows profile, and while logged in under that same windows profile, you could use the backup tool to create as many "winamp profiles" as you wanted. hopefully you know EAC and so understand what i mean.

this use would necessitate the ability to have multiple backup zips that you could name. (mp3 config, flac config, easy listening smartviews, rock smartviews, etc...)

i know its not the main intent of the backup tool, but its not a far stretch either.

Originally posted by Koopa
Currently we are at the begin. A lot of things are possible and we trying our best to provide a tool, which will satisfy the users.
<snip>
Just take it easy, I guarantee you that I'll listen to user feedback, just lemme work on the base first.

i understand, i'm in no rush. its just that i think its important to consider these things from the start so you don't have to double back later. i'd hate to see anyone have to do twice the work to enable something just b/c it wasn't considered at the start. (esp since that makes it more unlikely to happen at all)

one other unrelated thing b4 i forget, but when choosing to restore a backup, along w/the version check, it would be good if the backup was dated, so it could report to you when you actually made it.

[Koopa]

this use would necessitate the ability to have multiple backup zips that you could name. (mp3 config, flac config, easy listening smartviews, rock smartviews, etc...)

Just lemme reply to this, before I go to bed.

If we later allow the user to specify the path of the backed up files, something like this should be possible with the advanced mode:



Just save a backup called e.g. 'Media Library settings' as one zip. And restore that zip only later.

As for specific stuff, like backing up flac config or similar, this will be definitively a no go.

in_flac settings are part of Winamp.ini. I'm not interested in parsing specific parts of Winamp.ini and write them back later to Winamp.ini in Restore mode.

The amount of code would be gigantic, sorry.

[MrSinatra]

Originally posted by Koopa
As for specific stuff, like backing up flac config or similar, this will be definitively a no go.

in_flac settings are part of Winamp.ini. I'm not interested in parsing specific parts of Winamp.ini and write them back later to Winamp.ini in Restore mode.

The amount of code would be gigantic, sorry.

once again, i have failed to explain my meaning. i am not asking you to do anything like what you seem to think via that response. no parsing, etc...

what i am suggesting is that you could take a virgin install, and make a backup called virgin.zip (no parsing)

then, you could alter some prefs, make some smartviews, and create a backup called mp3-config.zip (again, nothing parsed)

then you could once again go back, alter some more things, and create a backup called flac-config.zip (once again, a full backup, no parsing)

and so on and so on...

this would allow the user to use the backup tool to enable loading differing winamp profiles under one windows profile.

no parsing needed or required.

have you ever used EAC? if not just try it and check out the EAC profiles feature. it simply allows for different configs, so that one profile can be mp3 oriented while another is flac oriented, just as an example. it could have differing file locations or whatever too. its just a way to enable different setups of the apps config/options.

[Koopa]

Backup code was written, and it is a monster. Much more work, than I had expected. We're fightning with some minior GUI glitches now, also need to cleanup the script a bit and prepare the example language file.

You can expect a public beta release within the next few days.

[Koopa]

Edit: Changelog now available on first page

[MrSinatra]

first of all, very cool, it looks nice, acts fast, and i love the "saves the llama's ass line" very funny.

here are my immediate first impressions:

i picked custom backup and it gave an odd dialog saying thats what i had done before proceeding. seems totally superfluous to me to do that, just one more unnecessary click, (i just clicked custom, i know thats what i picked).

there is an extra "s" in the dialog descrip line for choosing "automatic"

i don't think i saw it ask where it was going to save anything, and so i don't know where it saved whatever it made. kind of a pain if i want to restore the profile to a different machine.

i don't see in my start menu (vista ult 32bit sp2) how to start/run the tool again, its not a shortcut anywhere that i can see, (i looked in "winamp" first btw, where i think it should be).

but it obviously covers a lot of bases and ground and i think is well beyond "beta" in its development. looking forward to seeing development continue! great work!

[Koopa]

Thanks for your positive feedback.

i picked custom backup and it gave an odd dialog saying thats what i had done before proceeding. seems totally superfluous to me to do that, just one more unnecessary click, (i just clicked custom, i know thats what i picked).

You mean the popup messages, which confirm, what options you have selected?

If so, I can point to my posting above, these debug popups will be removed for final.

there is an extra "s" in the dialog descrip line for choosing "automatic"

Fixed, thanks. But as I said, grammar shit needs a general review for final.

i don't think i saw it ask where it was going to save anything, and so i don't know where it saved whatever it made. kind of a pain if i want to restore the profile to a different machine.

The user will be able to select the backup dir in future. It's on the todo list.
No promise, if it will be part of 1.0 Final.

And yeah, my bad, I haven't finished the license with proper description text, nor have I wrote any info in the forums thread, sorry.

i don't see in my start menu (vista ult 32bit sp2) how to start/run the tool again, its not a shortcut anywhere that i can see, (i looked in "winamp" first btw, where i think it should be).

I'm not sure if we should create shortcuts to start menu or desktop.
The program doesn't install anything and as soon as a user moves the standalone exe file, the shortcuts are dead.

My idea was it, once we made it command line friendly, someone could write a plugin, which can run the Tool automatically every x days. We could ship Backup Tool & Winamp plugin in an extra installer, which puts the stuff in Winamp's dir and then creates shortcuts on Desktop and start menu as well.

With command line support, we also could create a Windows task, which runs the tool in a user defined interval.

Things will come, give it time.

[MrSinatra]

i'm not trying to rush you, i just wanted to give you some feedback.

i'm still confused though, how do i run it again? do i have to run the downloaded setup/installer each time? i don't see shortcuts/listings anywhere. (i looked in winamp prefs too, if its in there i'm missing it)

or, are you saying the download itself is not an installer, but rather a fully self-contained standalone file? in that case, i understand then, i just didn't realize that at first. but i would suggest that most users would benefit from the download being an actual installer that places the standalone file in a sub folder of winamp or its own folder in pgm files, as well as provide a shortcut to it. afterall, thats no different than what winamp itself does, ...sure, the winamp exe could be moved messing up the shortcut, but that generally shouldn't and doesn't happen. plus, windows does search your disk if a shortcut is dead. i'd make part of the setup routine be asking if you want a start menu shortcut and a desktop shortcut, which many apps ask when installing.

i hope someone does make that plugin btw, such a "trigger" would really open up a lot of new possibilities for automating a lot of winamp type related things, starting with your backup tool. very exciting.

also, no criticism from me regarding finishing license text, i didn't say anything, (nor worry) about that.

just feedback, no rush from me. again, looks great.

[Koopa]

Your feedback is welcome.

And it was really my bad, that I haven't documented, were the files will be saved.

To stop confusing, lemme clear things a bit. The current file you've downloaded, is a standalone program, written in NSIS. Basically it's an installer on the other hand it's no 'real' installer, it won't install anything.

I may confused people, because of the use of NSIS.

And because of the fact, that's a standalone file and no installer, it doesn't create shortcuts.

If you want to run it again, simply run the exe file again.

But I agree, we really should 'install' that file in a Program folder and add shortcuts.You can expect a solution for 1.0 final.

[Koopa]

Winamp Backup Tool v1.0 Beta 2 available

Added tons of additional 3rd party plugins.

I've also written an installer for the Backup Tool, which installs the tool and has the ability to create Desktop/Startmenu entries.

Hopefully this makes more sense now and stops confusing people, hehe.

Again, this is still beta software!

Any feedback is welcome.

[MrSinatra]

seems to work flawlessly. interestingly, the backup of milkdrop takes longer than my ML files. i don't think i've ever altered those settings [for milkdrop]. i take it that the start menu shortcuts are mandatory? seems reasonable to me.

no confusion this go round.