Winamp News

[vegdelicious]

I posted what is Winamp to me and what I wanted from Winamp nad never had Winamp Linux. Winamp only saw $$$$$ MONEY that's why it went downhill.... As for you people hating on me .. I do what I want on my computers and I have the Winamp that I want to have. I dont care about all that software of 5.6. I hated so much when they trashed 2.9 version and went to that 3 version and then to 5. On that moment the road to go downhill started. Winamp player is good but those who saw only $$$ ...
As for the rest I dont want a 5.6 version with 17 MB . I want 2.9 with 2.4 MB . The purpose of Winamp to me is ONLY play mp3. That's it. I don't care about anything else. ANd that talk about virtual box... I am on linux I don't use Windows software ever... I have only one laptop with windows dualbooting because there are two softwares I use for design purposes. The only software besides those 2 is winamp. I sincerely hope Radionomy will provide a Linux Version of Winamp.

[DrO]

v2.9x came out after Winamp3 and unless you missed it, there was a crude alpha release of Winamp3 for linux.

and basing things on the size of the installer is somewhat petty, but each to their own. though you're giving conflicting responses by saying you don't use Windows software but then say you're using v2.95...

though i think it's pretty certain that for the time being there will not be a Winamp for Linux and the other platforms already mentioned will be the focus for where things go.

[DJ Egg]

@vegdelicious

No-one's "hating on you". Certainly not me anyway :-)

Note that about 6mb of the 5.666 installer is language packs.
The en-us installer is only ~11mb

The Lite en-us version is only 4mb

If you uncheck everything in the installer options, you'll be left with a fully up-to-date mp3 player....
that looks the same as v2.9, but is much much better :-)

And all of the promotional "money-making" AOL stuff was removed for 5.666

As for a native Linux version... it's not on the cards at the moment, but never say never.

[Victhor]

and like was always the case, you can just not install the video parts...

...it doesn't really make sense for anyone to consider such users if they're 11yrs behind where Winamp now is.

WinAmp.. WinAMP..


These among others are common trends in the forums and seems like users aren't learning or evolving with what Winamp have become through the years. Internet people is lazy, no doubt, but we should consider that AOL didn't do its best to properly "educate" its own users; from incomplete / secret Wasabi documentation to constant absence in Social networks (FB, Twitter, DeviantArt, Dribbble, etc), or even disabling submission's feedback, AOL has a big part of the blame on how the userbase began to split, stick to one particular version or directly dropping Winamp for other player. So last 5, 6 or 8 years AOL/Nullsoft didn't really communicate with users, so it's not strange if some wrong behaviours and ideas grew up.. (only the forums where left alive, but only a small percentage of people went there, so it became a bubble of opinions.. and even that would go neglected over the years..)

But what's passed is passed and there is no point in discussing about how it was or what it could've been. But it does help to see how things can be improved or do better this time (specially if there are still around people like you and Egg, who went through those years inside/along Winamp).

If there is people, money and willing to do things right, now is the chance to accompanny the user, make it participative, educate it. Even more if some changes are going to be implemented (whether it's small or big).
I know there are a lot of things still to be fixed and decided, but leaving the communication channels only opened in these forums is doing more of the same mistakes, like you said, this is a bubble and the real (numerous) users are actually out there, using Facebook, Google +, Tumblr, Pinterest, CGHub, etc.

I hope to see Winamp not only changing its technology and bussiness strategy, I hope to see it radically change how it sees its users and what it does to "communicate" with them (since, obviously, they are the main reason to maintain this ancient media player alive..).

[DJ Egg]

@Victhor

Thanks!

We already have Facebook & Twitter accounts, both which have been quite active for a number of years.
Links are at the bottom of the winamp.com homepage.
We've also got a contact system via http://help.winamp.com where anyone can post/reply to public questions
(though personally, I prefer users to use the private "Email Us" form instead - which is also used in Winamp > Help > Send Feedback).

You'll be happy to know that I manage all of them, lol.

Hmm... Sure we could also have a blog on Tumblr. Not so sure about the others though.... tbph, I'm busy enough already.....

[DrO]

But what's passed is passed and there is no point in discussing about how it was or what it could've been. But it does help to see how things can be improved or do better this time (specially if there are still around people like you and Egg, who went through those years inside/along Winamp).

exactly and with what can be done via here (in addition to the other methods of contact as Egg has listed), i am playing devil's advocate of sorts in trying to rattle the cage a bit to see what might be the reaction to possible changes or ideas that are being floated about. and it's not like myself and Egg cannot be asked things (whether we can ask is a different thing, but we've always tried to be as open as was allowed to do) and that we're paying attention to the things that people do ask for and as was seen from 5.64-5.66x, a lot of user feedback was taken into account in the fixes and changes made, which will hopefully continue with newer client releases.


as Winamp realistically has to change, but to do that it needs to be known what users will be ok with as well as thoughts on new possibilities as well as what and how people are / want to use it (skipping over the OS support debate as that's outside of what is being focused on for the time being - be that good or bad, it's just the reality of available resources).

like we could make a dedicated broadcasting setup based on Winamp which is better integrated than what is currently possible (specific skin / streaming features)
or
change it (optionally) into a headerless media server or just a more complete means for accessing media from Winamp on other machines on the same LAN and if needed externally such as on WAFA (with an easy option being an integrated DNAS server - spotiamp showed that there was interest in such a mode)
or
focus on more specific 'pro' type tagging / media handling
or
a super lite version (potentially just mp3 playback and super minimal ui) or just more prominence of the lite version for those who want a 2.x experience
or
a media discovery setup which hooks into other services so you can just find something without having to have a dedicate library
or
anything else really, and so the ideas can go on. but doing one thing is going to be seen as 'bloat' by others or not worth it for them and it's then how to make new Winamp releases worth going through the install process for all instead of the few.


as we could just not bother and leave everyone downloading the last AOL version and leave Winamp as that. which based on the 2.x users (and a lot of the feedback when the shutdown notice was announced) would suit them happily, but obviously not for those who prefer current / updated versions or want to try something different to the existing behemoths.


hence why it's going to be a while before a new non-AOL version is provided whilst things are re-built and also whilst working out the best way to take things from user feedback and how we envision Winamp should become. which i know is going to annoy some people or cause a load of abuse to be posted, but there are reasons why things have to change (which i know some will really not like) and that's just the way it has to go if Winamp is going to survive and remain relevant.

but the key thing is, where feasible (which is not possible in some cases and may even require external downloading of a few things) existing functionality will be remained, though how it's used / accessed may change.

[Victhor]

We already have Facebook & Twitter accounts, both which have been quite active for a number of years.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but I'm not talking about just having an account there and post "news", I'm talking about putting it to good use. For example, when v5.66x came out, the news of the shut down flooded the forum and most people didn't really noticed how damn good that release was. An infography / graphic posted everywhere (FB, Twitter, etc) highlighting the key fixes & features would've been really cool and last 6 / 8 months of dev' s work wouldn't go so unnoticed (or it would -the closing notice was too omnipresent- but not SO MUCH as it was).
Or a post / gfx with "Do you know you can disable all video features now?". Or "10 reasons to switch to the last version of Winamp". Or not even new content, just pour on facebook some of Winamp's wiki or blog, in a well organized, structured way and it would be really helpful.
TBH I thought about doing some of this myself (in this forum), but ended up trying to build something alike with Winampers and in Winamp enthusiasts last months.

But, beyond ideas, it would be ideal to have more people directly assigned to "hear the community" and create content, for example. I think it would be worth and solve -at least- some of the feedback / communication problems Winamp had over the last years (one of which is how messed up are this forums and how so much old / useless / outdated information is found along current news..).

[DrO]

there were reasons which cannot be gone into as to why there wasn't things posted to facebook, etc for the 5.66x release. but definitely it would have been good even for the 5.64 and 5.65 ones to have something done, but again, the reasons why it didn't happen cannot be gone into.

as for the forums with new vs old content, people baulked at the idea of a fresh start / tidy up when it was looking like the forums were going to be shutdown (and all of the unauthorised scraping of the forum data - which i still don't like having happened, but nothing can be done about it now despite never agreeing to it).

and that is why the help.winamp.com aspect was being setup to act as a place for relevant and current information in-conjunction with the forums / wiki. but yes, a lot should be ditched / updated, but it's a matter of time and resources and Egg can't have the amount of caffeine needed to achieve it sure others should help, but as some of the ideas which have been flung around aren't viable (help links to a wiki on everything in the prefs for example), it's probably something that would need to be refreshed depending on what happens with the clients (and done ideally in-conjunction with such changes).

[Victhor]

..see what might be the reaction to possible changes or ideas that are being floated about...

Great to hear this, I'm writing it down.. hehe (and it will probably get back in form of a long boring thread ).

..as Winamp realistically has to change..
..i know is going to annoy some people or cause a load of abuse to be posted, but there are reasons why things have to change (which i know some will really not like) and that's just the way it has to go if Winamp is going to survive and remain relevant.

Hopefully, some will stay with their old 2.9x without giving much about the news, some will be happy with new changes and some will jump on board because of the new features & changes. In any case, there is not much to loose, you can't keep everyone happy (not even "the majority", Winamp is too fragmented to aim to that) and not taking this chance to improve / implement new stuff, would be a crime..

[MrSinatra]

I believe I was the first to suggest a single "w" on each dialog in prefs to correspond to a blank wiki page that users (who were granted permission to do so) could edit.

I still believe that is a great idea.

i also really was unaware that winamp had a FB page, i don't think I've been there. egg, why not put it in your sig?

some other ideas I've had:

in bento, make prefs its own tab, instead of a separate dialog, and stick all options in it, instead of hidden in other various and non-obvious places in the app. also, add extra Media Library tags, so you could switch between them. and, in conjunction with the above, add a wiki browser tab, and a tab to any official online help.

[DrO]

i'm pretty sure you'd said that you wanted every item on the page had to have a link to the wiki which is why it would not happen as links for everything is an absolute nightmare to implement. if you're just wanting a help button on the top of the prefs dialog and then clicking on an item from that takes you to a wiki / help page then that's more feasible, but is still a lot of work (and after the shutting down of websites / wikis, i'm somewhat hesitant to introduce more web-based aspects especially when it comes to help). and if help is needed for an option, then there's clearly something wrong with the option (either it's naming or just what it does).

in bento, make prefs its own tab, instead of a separate dialog, and stick all options in it, instead of hidden in other various and non-obvious places in the app.

not following on this - what separate dialog are you referring to? the main preferences window?

add extra Media Library tags, so you could switch between them

not following what you mean.

and, in conjunction with the above, add a wiki browser tab, and a tab to any official online help.

adding extra tabs for something like that would not be good for the ui. and it's already possible to get to help via the main right-click / help menu which will open in the browser tab / external browser depending on the skin which is easier to leave as-is and doesn't add extra ui elements that will just be complained about.

[MrSinatra]

i'm pretty sure you'd said that you wanted every item on the page had to have a link to the wiki which is why it would not happen as links for everything is an absolute nightmare to implement. if you're just wanting a help button on the top of the prefs dialog and then clicking on an item from that takes you to a wiki / help page then that's more feasible, but is still a lot of work (and after the shutting down of websites / wikis, i'm somewhat hesitant to introduce more web-based aspects especially when it comes to help).

I'm for whatever is easiest to develop and maintain, and I leave it to the wise men to decide, but all I am saying is that something would be better than the nothing we have now.

my best suggestion atm, is for a little "w" to grace each dialog in ctrl-p that links to a wiki page explaining each option in the pref that only authorized users can edit. (the wiki page would need an anchor to each dialog)

not following on this - what separate dialog are you referring to? the main preferences window?

when you ctrl-p you get a small, constrained, separate dialog pop up. I am suggesting that it would be better if those prefs were in a tab in bento, the same way media library or video is in a tab.

not following what you mean.

again, in bento, there is a single media library tab. I would like to, at least have the option, to have more than one ML tab.

adding extra tabs for something like that would not be good for the ui. and it's already possible to get to help via the main right-click / help menu which will open in the browser tab / external browser depending on the skin which is easier to leave as-is and doesn't add extra ui elements that will just be complained about.

they could be turned on/off in prefs, but I think they make sense to have on by default, so that the wiki / help / prefs / etc is all right there, right in front of you. you could also add a tab to the forums.

I believe anything would be better than the current wasted blank space to the right of the last tab. interestingly, playlists is one example where you can have it as a tab or not, so why not at least give the option for other things?

but the primary reason isn't just to not waste space, but to rather provide a better experience for the user. I gather you disagree, but it is my opinion that it would be better.

and I def understand that users will complain, but they ALWAYS complain, no matter what you do. as you said elsewhere, maybe its time to break with the old, and I couldn't agree more. I think winamp is held back by irrelevant notions. I think that's actually the easy part to figure out. the hard part is in figuring out in what direction to go forward.

obviously, you don't want to create an entirely new winamp experience, b/c winamp already does so many things right. so imo, the question is what should change, and why?

radionomy has not said to users what its goals are, but here is a goal I would put at the top of the winamp to do list, if only for survival reasons:

create a winamp store.

or as I call it, "winapp."

the purpose of this goal, is to create a place where all mods, be they skins, plugins, what have you must be bought. in this way 3rd party devs have an incentive to create, and winamp gets a cut. make it impossible to run something 3rd party (outside of a trial period) outside of the store, so that users must pay to play.

if you did something like that, I could see, for example, someone creating a plugin for like $1.99 to connect to the BBC, stuff like that. they get paid, u get a cut, and you did nothing but provide the conduit. the possibilities are really endless. audio processing, recording, etc. and you would have the power to approve or not each app.

it would also solve the now silly issue of what to do about old add ons. we all know, there is nothing to be done except stop trying to support them. it is time to move on. the dev either keeps the app current in the winapp store, or it goes away. elegant, simple, straightforward.

I would also force users to update the winamp main client going forward. I don't think that's a big deal, as long as its done smartly. while winamp is running it should check for new versions every couple of hours, and if it find one, DLs. then, the next time winamp is exited, then started, it is SILENTLY updated, with a simple dialog simply stating "please wait while winamp is improved"

I have lots of ideas, but that enough for now, esp since I doubt the reaction to these will be all that positive.

[MrSinatra]

and I forgot to clarify, but there are lots of options for customizing winamp that aren't exposed anywhere in ctrl-p, but do exist elsewhere.

imo, all these things should also be visible in ctrl-p. even if buttons and so on exist for it in whatever part of the ui, they should still be reflected in ctrl-p.

I know that's a big undertaking, but I think its worthy to have ctrl-p as the single clearinghouse for all such options.

and just to be more clear, I'm not talking about things like the equalizer faders, etc, but things like 'skin settings' and 'file info components' and 'windows settings' like opacity and scaling and so on. and you wouldn't have to eliminate the current ui for those items, but rather just reflect them in ctrl-p.

fyi:

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=336223

[DrO]

when you ctrl-p you get a small, constrained, separate dialog pop up. I am suggesting that it would be better if those prefs were in a tab in bento, the same way media library or video is in a tab.

you're thinking skin-specific which makes that a no-go (especially as there is no guarantee the Bento skin is even going to be the default in coming versions or how the UI will be displayed).

if anything the preferences need to be reduced, but that's also a no-go *shrugs* things need to be as consistent as possible irrespective of the skin being used and somehow embedding the preferences into a tab is just a mass of work and offers little to no benefit that i can see.

again, in bento, there is a single media library tab. I would like to, at least have the option, to have more than one ML tab.

i don't see how that would even be useful when you can only have one library. i expect i am completely missing something with this wish...

they could be turned on/off in prefs, but I think they make sense to have on by default, so that the wiki / help / prefs / etc is all right there, right in front of you. you could also add a tab to the forums.

again it's too skin-specific (even if most don't bother to change the skin), but that's just trying to fill space for the sake of it it seems just because it's there (as you're assuming a large skin size which is not always the case).

I believe anything would be better than the current wasted blank space to the right of the last tab. interestingly, playlists is one example where you can have it as a tab or not, so why not at least give the option for other things?

because the playlist is a functional element and many people requested it.

but the primary reason isn't just to not waste space, but to rather provide a better experience for the user. I gather you disagree, but it is my opinion that it would be better.

adding a load of help related tabs is just not a good look imho. so yes i do disagree on that respect as that is why there are the easily accessible help menu items which follow the general setup of such things on Windows so it's consistent with known behaviour and the OS.

I would also force users to update the winamp main client going forward. I don't think that's a big deal, as long as its done smartly. while winamp is running it should check for new versions every couple of hours, and if it find one, DLs. then, the next time winamp is exited, then started, it is SILENTLY updated, with a simple dialog simply stating "please wait while winamp is improved"

that is something that i do agree needs to see improvements (especially as the update check doesn't work as a result of the sale), though i'm not sure on having it ping home so often (as that makes it sound creepy).


as for the store idea, personally i don't think it's viable and that's all i will personally say on the matter.


and with the points in the additional post, the preferences are too crowded as-is and like at the start of my reply, they really need to be reduced (or seriously re-organised which has the impact of breaking all language packs) and not added to unless absolutely needed. plus most of the skin settings (which are often specifically provided by that skin) can be accessed via the normal preferences on the modern skin -> current skin tab (assuming the skin has been coded to do it).

sure there is a point in that everything which can be done should be easily configurable, but there's reasons why things are ini-only such as for specific use cases and are not meant for general usage (which i now expect to have a have an advanced area or warnings before allowing them - which does not work as has been seen too many times from support over the 24-bit playback option and then people don't realise it's the reason their DSP plug-ins don't work).


so yes, probably a negative response as you expected (though things may still be considered as i'm just airing my own views), but i'm sure it'll give some food for thought with the internal discussions about things.

[Victhor]

..embedding the preferences into a tab is just a mass of work and offers little to no benefit that i can see.

You can't see it, but it does have some, you are the one who says users don't bother to change default skin or don't know it's possible, so giving power to the default UI is quite a big deal and should, in theory, report much benefits or power and should be considered as a 1st option to solve some of the "access problems".

In fact I think what Sinatra says points to something already present in default skins but that could be far better implemented or expanded at least:



Anyway, although I like Sinatra's idea, I also feel that is not really doable with the system as it is. Meaning, if I'm not wrong, it should be done through MAKI, and so it would not only be a pain in the ass to code but also it wouldn't be dynamic (any change applied to the system would have to be manually applied to the scripts..).
So, the idea is good, Zune player has it, and it works like a charm, but Winamp's current engine isn't prepared for something like this.. (or it is, but it would require a big team just to mantain the desktop app, and sadly I don't think that's the idea of Radionomy's devs..)

i don't see how that would even be useful when you can only have one library. i expect i am completely missing something with this wish...

I think he refers to have another ML tab at the SAME TIME (I see some uses for it, like comparing / managing albums for 2 different searchs or artists at the same time..).


-----


In the end, I'm sure there are a lot of good ideas / suggestions or possible ways to be heading to, but the question is, how much people is/will be available to apply it? Most of the good ideas / suggestions I see require at least 2 or 3 devs devoted only to the desktop app.. :/ (so that's why I think most are rejected or not being quite welcomed, independently of its usefulness).


And one more (and no more!):

and I def understand that users will complain, but they ALWAYS complain, no matter what you do. as you said elsewhere, maybe its time to break with the old, and I couldn't agree more. I think winamp is held back by irrelevant notions. I think that's actually the easy part to figure out. the hard part is in figuring out in what direction to go forward.

Totally agree, to this matter, this is and interesting reading.. (perfectly synthesized in):

"..And so the usual comment comes: users hate change. ... If users hated change, Google would have failed, and we’d be happy with Altavista."