playlists Not Saving... ever.

[MrSinatra]

this might be heresy, but I've often found the way winamp handles playlists confusing.

imo, the "scratch area" playlist, meaning the one usually in the top right in Bento, should be called something else besides "playlist" b/c that confuses and conflates with the playlist editor in the ML area / tabs. in fact, I still don't know the proper names for each area, even though they are seemingly distinct from another, albeit related. this confusion comes up over and over again in the forums.

a playlist is to me, a static txt list/file which can be edited. so I would change the name of the area in the top right to "cue tracks" or "queued tracks" or "scratch tracks" or something like that. It would still have the same functionality, with just slight modifications to make it so that if one wanted to save it or load a playlist, they would have to import/export to/from the playlist editor. sounds complex, but it actually would be very intuitive, a single button to load (import) whatever is already in the editor, and a single button to save (export) whatever is in the scratch area to the PL editor (switching to that tab automatically). the scratch area then becomes an exclusively dynamic list in that it is itself not saved without first going to the PL editor, and there is now a clear and distinct difference in the mind of the user between "list of upcoming songs to be played" vs "an actual playlist / file / editor"

I realize this is likely going to be a very unpopular idea with DrO, but I just thought I'd address the conflation confusion. it seems like it never goes away.

[DrO]

you're thinking skin specific and not about things in general, so you're right, i don't like your comment as it's not thinking overall as needs to be the case irrespective of the display of things by the skin being used. and what you refer to as the "scratch area" playlist is just the main playlist editor and acts as it's always done.

the crux of the issue is that people shouldn't need to know the difference between things and this pretty much goes back to how things were implemented to start with in 2.9 when library playlists were added and the main playlist editor was left untouched. thus the implementation is sub-par if there's confusion as is the current case (and has been for 11 years).

ultimately either the main playlist editor behaviour needs to be changed (i.e. some form of tracking back to the external / library playlist which would just make things more complicated and confusing imho unless a clean way can be found) or making it clearer that there is a distinction between the two. and what you've mentioned, can already be done within the library playlist views, it's just going from the main playlist editor that it's less clear (other than using the send-to menu or some variation of that).

but that all seems to rely on adding additional ui elements to make it more obvious and that's ultimately not possible due to limitations with most skin compatibility and right-click options people just don't find so it's all at an impasse as such.


and finally, the expected behaviour of the main playlist editor cannot really be messed with (as you're effectively proposing) as there's all of the users who never use the library and library playlists and so that's another area that needs to be considered before any sort of change could be considered. so it's not as simple a thing to change as you're indicating it would be.

[Aminifu]

...

so a change in usage is most likely what's needed to ensure that what is done is correct for what is being wanted e.g. don't use the library playlists and just keep everything in the main playlist editor. or make sure the contents of the library playlist are visible and then ensure that those are worked with correctly (including force saving them as needed).

...

The way things were added over time has resulted in multiple ways to work with playlists. Once these are understood, it is not hard to pick a particular method to use and become comfortable with it, imo. Like in other cases, it just takes learning Winamp's way of doing things and not confuse yourself with expectations picked up from using other apps.

In cPro skins it is possible to have the playlist editor (PE) shown in different panels, but only 1 panel at a time. It was confusing at first to open the PE in one place and see it disappear from the panel it was already in. I kept trying to open 2 PEs at the same time until I realized that that is not possible (due to all the underlying tracking issues that would cause).

[2Spirals]

So basicaly it depends what tab I have my playlist in, that makes or breaks the deal. So you're saying in just by creating a playlist and naming it something, and then putting music into it, and then not being able to keep switching back and forth between them, expecting them to still have all the same music that I put there before... is all just because I'm using the wrong part of the UI? This seems really confusing.

I realllly hate to do this, because I know there's a lot of Winamp-for-lifers here, who love and adore it, and I do too (uh apparently previous builds?) but I have to do this:

In Foobar2000 you create a simple playlist. In the only area where you can create a playlist. Then you put music into it. Then you create another one, and put music into that one. You then switch back to the first playlist and SURPRISE! the music is still there. And there's no confusion over different panels or making sure I'm in some main editor or library area or whatever...stuff like that. And I realllly hate to do this, as it will be extremely unpopular but please keep in mind I've been using Winamp since 2001. With the exception of half a year of Foobar, ok?

Do you see how there is just one panel, on the left, under the image, where the playlists are? No craziness, no other panels to switch to or make sure to put music into instead of a different one, etc? I could click a different playlist and music would be saved into all of them from the moment the music is put in.

If Foobar2000 can do it... why can't Winamp?

[DrO]

because it's just not been coded to do it that way. that's why it's not doing it like it as this all pre-dates fb2k's existence (which you can thank one of the ex-Winamp devs for leading to Peter making his own player) as someone using Winamp since 2001 would know.

in Winamp it's all played from what is basically a temporary playlist and not what you select from the library view (especially when you'd got things setup to not show the actual playlists). whereas what fb2k shows as the playlist is that playlist since it's got a true multi-playlist setup instead of Winamp's 'main' + 'library' setup (since the library playlists were meant as a repository to load into the main one, edit and save back, not to be used directly as you want).

so the two players are implemented in completely different ways especially when it comes to where / how the playlists are treated and saved and so it's not a true comparison between one or the other. so probably fb2k is the better choice for your needs and we can put one more nail in Winamp's coffin as the chances of seeing it get the multi-playlist handling you want is pretty slim as things go with everything else needing to be re-done.

[2Spirals]

P.S. That "Save" button on the bottom of the library playlist window does the trick!!! Thank you!!!